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Aspergers have a natural talent | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7160 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 25 of 36 05 October 2007 at 8:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I too am a little puzzled by some people's resistance that certain traits or features may help in language learning. It reminds me a bit of the thread about a possible positive connection between being bipolar and learning languages. Perhaps there's a latent feeling that "superior" people cannot exist since it defies the supposed equity among people. I agree with people such as William Camsden who believe that someone with Asperger's has certain traits that can both help and hinder the learning of languages. In fact, it seems intuitive to me that someone who can focus on a task very hard (whether it's caused by a condition such as Asperger's or just arises as a behaviour that has been learned) should be able to learn certain things much more quickly than someone who can't or won't focus as hard. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish | Message 26 of 36 05 October 2007 at 10:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I certainly am not resistant to the suggestion that certain traits may help language learning. I simply require evidence. I see nothing wrong with my opposing woolly minded thinking and wishful thinking posing as reasonable suggestions. fanatic's original post states his belief, says aspies are inclined to be above average IQ and to be more single minded and have better memories (than NTs) and then offers Daniel Tammet as an example of an aspie who can learn languages with ease. There is seriously fallacious logic and misleading presentation here. It is not a defining characteristic that aspies have above average IQ or memories. It is a defining characteristic that aspies have impairments in language skills. Daniel Tammet is not a typical aspie. Rather than follow up my questions with any serious analysis or cite any research all I've seen is a type of ad hominem stylie retort that I'm being unkind or close minded. I remain open to this extraordinarily controversial suggestion but I merely ask for evidence. Anecdotes are not evidence. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| joan.carles Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6337 days ago 332 posts - 342 votes Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan*, French, EnglishC1, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Hungarian, Russian, Georgian | Message 27 of 36 05 October 2007 at 10:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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That's the question. Maybe Aspies have certain traits that will help them to learn languages or whatever other intellectual endeavors, just like lefties, bipolars, authistics, etc do. But presenting some particular cases is not a solid proof for anything. As someone said here or in another thread, it's interesting to know that if a group of people that share a characteristic Y (Y= Asperges syndrome, for example) has an advantage for doing something, then maybe the rest of the world can take advantage of this and try to emulate that behaviour which is characteristic of this group, and apply it to learn languages more effectively. But do we know what are these behavioral differences we could do or emulate?
Some Aspies have high IQ, some don't, some are good speakers, others aren't, some speak a zillion languages, others are monolingual...it seems the groups is so heterogenous that it's hard to get a common feature. At least when it comes to strategies for learning languages. Edited by joan.carles on 05 October 2007 at 10:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7160 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 28 of 36 05 October 2007 at 10:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
With all due respect, your describing of something as "seriously fallacious" or "extraordinarily controversial" seems at odds with being open to the suggestion. I sense a certain a priori skepticism (perhaps even edginess?) even if it is unintended on your part. For the record, I'd prefer not to be afflicted by full-blown Asperger's syndrome since whatever advantages I would have in language learning would be offset by changes to my social behaviour. I can see the advantages of being "average" and don't like to define myself only as a walking encyclopedia or "obessesor" of languages. Edited by Chung on 05 October 2007 at 10:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish | Message 29 of 36 05 October 2007 at 10:54am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Being skeptical sits happily with being open to persuasion, just not so open-minded that your brains fall out.
Don't worry, it's not catching. Well not from message boards anyway. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Emanresu Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6264 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English* | Message 30 of 36 05 October 2007 at 11:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Impairments in language of the type which would hinder language learning are not a defining characteristic. To quote Wikipedia (it may not be the most reliable source, the AS article is pretty good, which is why it's a featured article) "Although children with AS acquire language skills without significant general delay, and the speech of those with AS typically lacks significant abnormalities, language acquisition and use is often atypical.[3] Abnormalities include verbosity; abrupt transitions; literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance; use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker; auditory perception deficits; unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech; and oddities in loudness, pitch, intonation, prosody, and rhythm.[1]" Pedantic, verbose speech seems to me to indicate some aptitude for learning language, rather than a disability. I agree that Daniel Tammet is an atypical example, as his ability is more likely to be connected to his synaethesia. It is difficult to say whether AS helps language learning or not, but I would be inclined to think that the intense focuses often associated with the syndrome would help, even if there are no other characteristics which aid language acquisition. Edited by Emanresu on 05 October 2007 at 11:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 7150 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 31 of 36 05 October 2007 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
My original post was to the effect that Aspies MAY have an advantage. I put it forward as a suggestion. I didn't offer any proof so there was no wooly logic involved. I did assert that a common characteristic of people with AS is an obsession with a subject, or single-mindedness. This must be an advantage when studying the field of your choice, or your obsession. High IQ and a prodigious memory are characteristics of aspies. These are also advantages. Problems with language is not a general characteristic of aspies but can be common. Literal interpretation of speech is common but not universal. Certainly I give examples. They are given as examples and not proof. There is no need to attack the examples as not being proof of my assertion. They weren't meant to be. I have read many books on AS and I know many people with AS I can use to form my own opinions. None of them is language impaired, although some have speech that has peculiar characteristics. Most developed a large vocabulary at a young age, way beyond their peers. It is often asserted that children with AS speak like little adults. All of the aspies I know have above-average IQs. They are all extremely logical and most are better than average at learning languages. Almost all make friends easily and are outgoing in nature, or extroverts. On the other hand they like to tackle projects alone. I believe we can teach people to use the good qualities of AS to improve their learning skills and mathematical skills. I have had an almost 100% success rate teaching learning, thinking and mathematical skills. If a group of people excel at something, it makes sense to find out why and to see if everyone can benefit from the discovery. Edited by fanatic on 05 October 2007 at 10:05pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish | Message 32 of 36 06 October 2007 at 5:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
You entitled your original post "Aspergers have a natural talent". This bald statement of fact needs to be justified. You didn't say "MAY" in upper or lower case. It requires justification as it flies in the face of professionals' definitions of Asperger's syndrome which include language impairment and learning difficulties. The woolly, nay false, logic resides in using exceptional cases: David Tammet, Bill Gates, etc., to characterise the larger number of typical asperger syndrome cases.
Not so, to be obsessive is to have an unbalanced attitude to something. Your revisionism is perverse. Having a high IQ and being obsessed with something can take you very far in the wrong direction as is exemplified by Newton's later life obsession with alchemy.
Without qualification this statement is meaningless. You could mean all aspies, most aspies, some aspies or even few aspies.
"general but not common" This is a contradiction. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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