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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6147 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes  | Message 25 of 33 13 March 2008 at 8:11am | IP Logged | ||
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Professor, would it be possible for you to recommend a path to active fluency (at least in writing) in a literary language? Assuming passive (reading) fluency in the classics of a literary language has been attained (say, Latin at a level where one can read Lucretius fluently), would it be possible to outline a path to proficiency in producing grammatically precise prose with some semblance of literary style?
Also, assuming it is practical or even possible, would active spoken fluency be possible? I have heard that Sanskrit is still spoken in communities in India, in fact as a semi-revived language judging from some news reports I have read, but as for Latin, I have heard mostly discouraging news where even 18th Century writers who (according to contemporary critics) can produce flawless Ciceronian prose, can barely speak the linguam latinam. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6108 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 26 of 33 13 March 2008 at 10:09am | IP Logged | ||
Do you mean in "classical Latin"? As opposed to modern, mainly ecclesiastic Latin? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6147 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 27 of 33 14 March 2008 at 1:29am | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, Classical or at least Humanistic Latin like Descartes or Erasmus. I've heard even in the 18th and 19th Century that Ecclesiastic Latin was terrible a lot of the time when spoken. Priests would begin a sentence in Latin and end with their native language; the pronunciation of English priests in particular was incomprehensible to the Contentinental clergy.
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| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7255 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 28 of 33 23 March 2008 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can only hypothesize about a path to fluency in writing Latin, for much to my shame I have not attained this. I realized this not too long ago when I thought that perhaps if I were to rewrite my by-now infamously awaited treatise in Latin, it might finally come out right. Alas, it did not come out at all, as I soon realized that I was just not up to the task. Still, I am relatively confident that I know what it about what it would take, namely at least 5 hours a day, each and every single day, divided thus into four 75-minute sessions:
15 minutes reading good Latin prose aloud, followed immediately by 15 minutes doing Latin Scriptorium transcriptions of good Latin prose, followed by 15 minutes chanting Latin grammatical paradigms aloud, followed immediately by, 15 minutes doing translation exercises into Latin, immediately checked with a “key” and then followed immediately by 15 minutes free Latin composition. The 75-minute sessions should be spread as evenly through the day as possible—one just after waking, one close to noon, one close to evening, and one just before retiring for the night. If you can add additional 75-minute sessions, then so much the better, although you may find yourself better served by using any additional time at your disposal to simply read as much Latin as you can for pure silent education, enjoyment, and edification. If you were to do this every single day for 365 days, then I would be astounded if you did not come close to your goal, presuming the relatively advanced starting point you propose (and just who are you, Mr. “Amphises"? I do not recall that you have ever introduced yourself properly: please do so!) You may well get there sooner, and in any case, at a certain point, preferably earlier than later, you will probably want to venture to send your free compositions by way of correspondence to a society for Living Latin, of which there are several, the strongest and most vital of which being the Vatican itself. Whatever else one may think of the Roman Church and her doctrines, there is not denying that she is the best friend and proctor of the Latin language, and if you were to correspond with a cardinal in order to express your appreciation for this fact, you might well establish a venue for continued exchange of ideas via this medium. As for spoken fluency, presuming you did all of the above aloud and also made a conscious effort to think in Latin throughout the day, I do not see why it should not be possible as well. On another front, regarding Ancient Greek, Mr. Frisch was so kind as to send me a few samples of his recorded material for the Assimil Course. I must say I that I was very pleasantly surprised by the quality. It was nothing at all like their absurdly exaggerated Latin recording. Indeed, I would have to say that it is the best attempt I have heard of restoring Swedish or Norwegian-like light tones (rather than Chinese-like heavy tones) to Ancient Greek that I have ever heard. The result is both immediately comprehensible based upon a knowledge of Modern Greek pronunciation, plus plausibly authentic as a reconstruction. I regret having purchased the book only; I will most emphatically acquire the complete set of recordings and endeavor to shadow them through the next time I am moved to focus my energies upon a revision of this dialect. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ruan Diglot Groupie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6180 days ago 95 posts - 101 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English | Message 29 of 33 25 March 2008 at 3:44am | IP Logged | ||
You said that it takes one daily hour, during one year, to achieve fluency in any language. Why should Latin be an exception? ( or dead languages in general. ) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7255 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 30 of 33 30 March 2008 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ruan, I do not believe you are quoting me accurately. I consciously and deliberately eschew the term “fluent” and all its derivatives because they mean so many different things to so many different people. What I know I have written or said relatively recently is that one can profitably spend an hour a day for a year going through an Assimil-type course in order to get all that one can from it, and that if one spends an hour a day for a year studying a Class I/II language intelligently, one can go from ground 0 to level 2 or the ability to begin functioning in it in every respect. However, my own experience studying confirms the basic ILR data that progress through the various defined levels always requires geometrically more time. Learning a foreign language is always a life-long process, and “mastering” any level always requires an investment of as much time again as one has already put in to getting to that level. I took it that what this Manx/Chinese(?) Latin student was after is the ability to express himself elegantly, confidently, with style at the highest level of written prose—a level that eludes most native speakers of any living languages.
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| alancairns Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 6289 days ago 49 posts - 51 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 31 of 33 15 April 2008 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | ||
You might be interested in hearing Prof. Paula Saffire singing Sappho's φαινεται μοι (forgive the lack of accents - I can't remember how to do them). You can hear it here. She also has a Greek instructional text, which, unusually, begins with conversational sections. Pity she did the typesetting herself. Alan 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tcporco Newbie United States Joined 5867 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Sanskrit | Message 32 of 33 04 November 2008 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have had great difficulty with the Sanskrit mp3's from News on All India Radio, because the sound quality is
extremely poor. Perhaps one of you could recommend particular software for listening or filtering. I note that some of the other language bulletins (such as Arunachali and Gujarati) are difficult to listen to because of similar sound quality difficulties, though some of the mp3s are exceptionally clear (such as Marathi); this as of 4 November 2008. I emailed All India Radio but have had no reply. Thanks for any suggestions; I'd very much like to hear spoken Sanskrit and appreciate your thoughts. --Travis Porco
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