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L-R and parallel texts | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6449 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 1 of 34 22 January 2008 at 10:12am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have been asked about the value of parallel texts in Listening-Reading, as I previously did not see the point, but have recently came to value them.
For relatively difficult texts in languages which are quite unfamiliar, I still don't see the point in parallel texts. Using "The Master and Margarita" for Polish, it was all I could do to map the Polish phrases to the English ones I was reading. Trying to read the Polish was a distraction, and broke my concentration entirely. For easier texts in languages which are not so unfamiliar, I find parallel texts very useful. I've Listen-Read "The Little Prince" with both English-Spanish and French-Spanish parallel texts. Spanish is very transparent to me, as a speaker of Italian, and I have previously done some reading in it intermittently over the years, but not studied it. What I found was that I could read a sentence or paragraph in English/French, and then follow along with the Spanish as it was spoken. It helped that the narrator tended to pause briefly between sentences, and that I read fairly quickly. I think that using a parallel text helps structures stick, both in terms of word order and declination/conjugation, for me. I am certain that it helps with spelling. I do not yet know how the combinations of a difficult text with a transparent or partly known language would work, or an easy text with an opaque one. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| atamagaii Senior Member Anguilla Joined 6216 days ago 181 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Apache* | Message 2 of 34 22 January 2008 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Learning is a search for the inexplicable.
L-R does work with different languages and difficult novels. It's just a little bit... different and ... more difficult.
Joy is your passage to a greater perfection. atamagaii aka siomotteikiru 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6449 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 34 22 January 2008 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I should have been clearer. I wasn't trying to make a statement on how L-R works in those situations, merely on how important it is (for me) to have -parallel- texts in them. If I'm just starting an unfamiliar language with a difficult text, having a parallel text doesn't help much beyond what an English text would, as I don't have enough mental focus to spread between the English text, other text, and audio. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ichiro Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6219 days ago 111 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, French Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Korean, Malay | Message 5 of 34 22 January 2008 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Volte -
It sounds as if for the third stage of listening-reading, although the scheme specifies listening to the target language while reading your own, where possible you are advocating reading chiefly in the target language instead. Or is it that with texts you know well, or that are simple enough to follow in the target language, you find it easy to skip between the two? Or - given enough time in pauses in the narration - read both? Also, doesn't your use of parallel texts tie you to your computer for listening-reading learning? That can't be a bunch of fun. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lloydkirk Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6423 days ago 429 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 6 of 34 22 January 2008 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree, if you don't read parallel texts line by line, it's harder to grasp the subtleties of the target language. Aligning parallel texts line by line is a hellish task though. That said, I did find one online of the divine comedy in Italian. Link I wish I could find more like that. I've got the audio too!:-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6449 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 7 of 34 23 January 2008 at 12:44am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I suspect this is a matter of personal taste. I've occasionally watched movies with subtitles for years, and have learned a bit from it. Unfortunately, there are very few movies that I like, and watching for more than a few hours almost always gives me a headache. I prefer using books for a few reasons. The translations tend to be closer (subtitles in the language a film is spoken in tend to bear little resemblance to what is said in detail; they summarize, change words, etc; ones in other languages are usually equally far). It's "denser": there are a lot more words per unit of time, since there are no long silences, musical interludes, etc. Finally, I just prefer books to movies, usually. For me, joy is a day spent reading. Torture would be spending more than a handful of days per year watching movies. For you, movies may well be better; it's good to see another perspective on this forum. People vary.
Yes, I consider that the major problem with Listening-Reading.
I find this depends as well. If it's a long and dense paragraph, I agree. If it's a relatively short and light one, a paragraph at a time is quite feasible, for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6449 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 8 of 34 23 January 2008 at 12:52am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Then I wasn't clear. I advocate reading primarily in the language you are -not- listening to. Depending on the difficulty of the text, I can also read in the language I am listening to. To use concrete examples, with subjective estimates, from my actual experience: with "The Master and Margarita" as my introduction to Polish, I could read in Polish less than 1% of the time, after having first read it in English a few days earlier. For "The Little Prince", on my first reading, using a Spanish/English text, I read primarily, but not exclusively, in English. For a second reading, still using L-R, and a Spanish/French text, I think I spent about 60% of the time reading French, and 40% reading Spanish. I always (except for when I make a brief mistake) read the non-Listening language first, and only then read the language I'm listening to, ideally at _exactly_ the same time as it is being said (after having read the other language first, such as in the gap before a sentence or paragraph). I'm starting to experiment with also focusing on keeping the meaning in mind as I do so.
Exactly. It helps that I read quickly.
Yes, it does. I personally don't mind; I've read many novels on my monitor. I suppose it would also be possible to print parallel texts. I see no reason to, personally, but I think most people dislike reading on their monitor. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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