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Subliminal learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 17 of 24 14 March 2008 at 11:41am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I am working with psychological standard definitions. Subliminal, implicit have the same meaning: under awareness. They are used to talk about unconscious and nonconscious processes . This words are used interchangeably. Even sometimes they use "incidental" (incidental learning) as synonym.
If you are writer, it is sure you are using a lot of consciousness. Some people use proofreaders as well (more consciousness). Edited by slucido on 14 March 2008 at 11:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| unzum Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom soyouwanttolearnalan Joined 6917 days ago 371 posts - 478 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin | Message 18 of 24 14 March 2008 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Subliminal, unconscious and implicit are different words with different meanings. Implicit is something that is not directly stated but is implied.
The unconscious is a part of your mind which is inaccessible the conscious mind but affects behaviour, emotions, etc. Subliminal is defined as 'below the threshold of sensation or consciousnes'. I've checked these all in different dictionaries and as you can see, subliminal is the only thing that is defined as below conscious awareness. You mentioned that people on this forum mainly use subliminal, implicit & unconscious techniques to learn a language & describe these as watching TV, reading books etc in the target language. In fact, what you are describing is 'passive' learning. Reading & listening are passive actions, because it involves you sitting back & taking in information. Speaking & writing are 'active' processes, because you actually have to produce something yourself. Perhaps my choice of the word 'active' was badly chosen. What I meant by that is any type of learning when you are paying attention. Even when you are listening to something, or reading something, if you are paying attention then you are doing something active. A better word would be 'conscious' learning. Of course, when you are reading, speaking, listening, etc, there's not doubt that your unconcious mind is busy behind the scenes, working things out, associating words with different things etc, but I think it does need the help of the conscious mind as well. So when you try and completely bypass the conscious mind and just rely on the unconscious mind to actually learn stuff, I think it becomes a very slow and inefficent way to learn (like with the Tibetan through osmosis experiment). In your post you said that operant & classical conditioning are 'useful techniques that work at an unconscious level'. I would hardly call classical & operant conditioning 'unconscious techniques'. They simply use principles of association (bad & good associations) and punishment & rewards (negative & positive) to determine whether a behaviour will continue or not. I'm not saying I disbelieve in the unconsious mind, there's no doubt that it works a lot behind the scenes and affects our behaviour & thoughts etc. But as far as picking stuff up unconsciously or subliminally, I view this as a byproduct from passive learning. I would venture to say that a lot of the learning from passive learning is from practising or recognising stuff you already learnt from instructional materials. Some of it comes from your brain figuring out new stuff but I think it takes a lot of exposure before you are able to use these new words/grammar rules etc, actively or to know their exact meaning. As for the thread title; 'subliminal' means below the conscious level and also conjures up a whole host of other associations, such as tapes promising to teach you fluent Spanish while you sleep, or 1/6 of a second adverts that make you want to drink Coke. From your other posts, I think what you are talking about is passive learning, i.e. taking in a lot of authentic material to improve your language learning. There's a nice essay here that sums up a lot of the research on subliminal perception. Also, I don't have time to comment about it now but I went to a few of the links you posted and glanced over the content. It has some good ideas but I'm not even sure if any of these can be applied to language learning or if they actually refer to subliminal learning at all. How would one even begin to try to make a 'subliminal' learning program? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 19 of 24 15 March 2008 at 4:57am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Please, don't check standard dictionaries. We are talking about technical terms and the meaning aren't exactly the meanings you find in everyday life. They use all this meaning like synonimous (subliminal perception=implicit perception) When you are acquiring a language and learning the grammar rules implictly, you are learning them below your consciousness. Check the research and professional stuff.
They are learning the RULES of the language implicitly, subliminally, unconsciously. When you interact with the language in this fashion, with extensive reading and listening, you are acquiring the language and not learning it. When you speak and write extemporaneously, you are using the language actively, but you use the language RULES implicitly, subliminally and unconsciously. If not, speaking and writing can take forever. If you read Krashen's link I sent to the forum, you can read that.
It's crystal clear you have not read anything. Read about priming, please.
In human everyday life, like right now, this principles work in a unconscious level. A lot of the "subliminal manipulation" is pure behaviorism. And there is specific research about: "unconscious learning. conditioning to subliminal visual stimuli" http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/172/17270102.pdf
Yes, you need a lot of exposition to a language at all levels to acquire it. Who disagrees with that? And if your read about "implicit memory", it can be about stuff you previously have seen consciously and know you don't remember that previous exposition, but it affects your actual learning. Please, review what I wrote about priming.
As I said before, words like "subliminal" and " unconscious" have attached cultural meanings and it can be problematic, but I think you know what I am talking about. Regarding the CSICOP link, it's a journal report about a scientific issue. They say yes...but not. and merges the subject with New Age marketer's advertising. They reflect their own frame, sometimes unconscious. If you have real interest about a subject it's better to review scientific literature by yourself. Edited by slucido on 15 March 2008 at 8:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 20 of 24 15 March 2008 at 8:42am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Here you have a reference about the active and passive issue regarding subliminal learning and nonconscious conditioning too:
Psychophysics: Is subliminal learning really passive? Aaron R. Seitz1 & Takeo Watanabe Nature 422, 36 (6 March 2003) | doi:10.1038/422036a http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v422/n6927/full/422036a .html#top "Perceptual learning can occur as a result of exposure to a subliminal stimulus, without the subject having to pay attention and without relevance to the particular task in hand1 — but is this type of learning purely passive? Here we show that perceptual learning is not passive, but instead results from reinforcement by an independent task2, 3. As this learning occurred on a subliminal feature, our results are inconsistent with attentional learning theories4, 5 in which learning occurs only on stimuli to which attention is directed. Instead, our findings suggest that the successful recognition of a relevant stimulus can trigger an internal reward6 and give rise to the learning of irrelevant and even subliminal features that are correlated with the occurrence of the reward." Other references here: http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:55364 Imaging unconscious semantic priming. Nature. 1998 Oct 8;395 (6702):597-600 9783584 (P,S,E,B) S Dehaene, L Naccache, G Le Clec'H, E Koechlin, M Mueller, G Dehaene-Lambertz, P F van de Moortele, D Le Bihan INSERM U.334, Service Hospitalier Frédéric Joliot, CEA/DRM/DSV, Orsay, France. "Visual words that are masked and presented so briefly that they cannot be seen may nevertheless facilitate the subsequent processing of related words, a phenomenon called masked priming. It has been debated whether masked primes can activate cognitive processes without gaining access to consciousness. Here we use a combination of behavioural and brain-imaging techniques to estimate the depth of processing of masked numerical primes. Our results indicate that masked stimuli have a measurable influence on electrical and haemodynamic measures of brain activity. When subjects engage in an overt semantic comparison task with a clearly visible target numeral, measures of covert motor activity indicate that they also unconsciously apply the task instructions to an unseen masked numeral. A stream of perceptual, semantic and motor processes can therefore occur without awareness." Nonconscious associative learning: Pavlovian conditioning of skin conductance responses to masked fear-relevant facial stimuli. Psychophysiology. 1994 Jul ;31 (4):375-85 10690918 (P,S,E,B) F Esteves, C Parra, U Dimberg, A Ohman Department of Clinical Psychology, Uppsala University, Sweden. "We examined the possibility of nonconscious associative learning in a context of skin conductance conditioning, using emotional facial expressions as stimuli. In the first experiment, subjects were conditioned to a backwardly masked angry face that was followed by electric shock, with a masked happy face as the nonreinforced stimulus. In spite of the effectively masked conditioned stimuli, differential conditioned skin conductance responses were observed in a subsequent nonmasked extinction phase. This effect could not be attributed to differential sensitization or pseudo-conditioning. In the second experiment, the differential responding during extinction was replicated with angry but not with happy faces as conditioned stimuli. It was concluded that with fear-relevant facial expressions as the conditioned stimulus, associative learning was possible even in conditions where the subjects remained unaware of the conditioned stimulus and its relationship to the unconditioned stimulus." Subliminal perception and the levels of activation Can J Psychiatry. 1981 Jun ;26 (4):255-9 7296439 (P,S,E,B) F Borgeat, R Chabot, L Chaloult "The influence of the auditory subliminal messages on the level of activation has been evaluated through a double-blind study. Twenty consenting subjects were alternately submitted to activating and deactivating subliminal messages. Activation changes were estimated through the variations in the scores at the Mood Adjective Check List. Five out of this test's six factors concerned by the content of the subliminal messages responded differently according to the nature of these messages; four factors did so to a statistically significant degree. These results tend to indicate that auditory subliminal perceptions can influence the level of activation. The authors raise several questions, especially stressing that the parameters regulating subliminal response and susceptibility remain largely undefined and in need of systematic investigation." Subliminal words activate semantic categories (not automated motor responses). Psychon Bull Rev. 2002 Mar ;9 (1):100-6 12026940 (P,S,E,B) Richard L Abrams, Mark R Klinger, Anthony G Greenwald Psychology Department, University of Washington, Seattle 98195-1525, USA. rlabrams@u.washington.edu "Semantic priming by visually masked, unidentifiable ("subliminal") words occurs robustly when the words appearing as masked primes have been classified earlier in practice as visible targets. It has been argued (Damian, 2001) that practice enables robust subliminal priming by automatizing learned associations between words and the specific motor responses used to classify them. Two experiments demonstrate that, instead, the associations formed in practice that underlie subliminal priming are between words and semantic categories. Visible words classified as pleasant or unpleasant in practice with one set of response key assignments functioned later as subliminal primes with appropriate valence, even when associations of keys with valences were reversed before the test. This result shows that subliminal priming involves unconscious categorization of the prime, rather than just the automatic activation of a practiced stimulus-response mapping." Contextual cueing: implicit learning and memory of visual context guides spatial attention. Cognit Psychol. 1998 Jun ;36 (1):28-71 9679076 (P,S,E,B) M M Chun, Y Jiang Department of Psychology, Yale University, New Haven, CT 06520-8205, USA. marvin.chun@yale.edu "Global context plays an important, but poorly understood, role in visual tasks. This study demonstrates that a robust memory for visual context exists to guide spatial attention. Global context was operationalized as the spatial layout of objects in visual search displays. Half of the configurations were repeated across blocks throughout the entire session, and targets appeared within consistent locations in these arrays. Targets appearing in learned configurations were detected more quickly. This newly discovered form of search facilitation is termed contextual cueing. Contextual cueing is driven by incidentally learned associations between spatial configurations (context) and target locations. This benefit was obtained despite chance performance for recognizing the configurations, suggesting that the memory for context was implicit. The results show how implicit learning and memory of visual context can guide spatial attention towards task-relevant aspects of a scene." Awareness modifies the skill-learning benefits of sleep. Curr Biol. 2004 Feb 3;14 (3):208-12 14761652 (P,S,E,B) Edwin M Robertson, Alvaro Pascual-Leone, Daniel Z Press Laboratory for Magnetic Brain Stimulation, Behavioral Neurology Unit, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, 330 Brookline Avenue, Boston, MA 02215 USA. "Behind every skilled movement lies months of practice. However, practice alone is not responsible for the acquisition of all skill; performance can improve between, not just within, practice sessions. An important principle shaping these offline improvements may be an individual's awareness of learning a new skill. New skills, such as a sequence of finger movements, can be learned unintentionally (with little awareness for the sequence, implicit learning) or intentionally (explicit learning). We measured skill in an implicit and explicit sequence-learning task before and after a 12 hr interval. This interval either did (8 p.m. to 8 a.m.) or did not (8 a.m. to 8 p.m.) include a period of sleep. Following explicit sequence learning, offline skill improvements were only observed when the 12 hr interval included sleep. This overnight improvement was correlated with the amount of NREM sleep. The same improvement could also be observed in the evening (with an interval from 8 p.m. to 8 p.m.), so it was not coupled to retesting at a particular time of day and cannot therefore be attributed to circadian factors. In contrast, in the implicit learning task, offline learning was observed regardless of whether the 12 hr interval did or did not contain a period of sleep. However, these improvements were not observed with only a 15 min interval between sessions. Therefore, the practice available within each session cannot account for these skill improvements. Instead, sufficient time is necessary for offline learning to occur. These results show a behavioral dissociation, based upon an individual's awareness for having learned a sequence of finger movements. Offline learning is sleep dependent for explicit skills but time dependent for implicit skills." 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| kewms Senior Member United States Joined 6190 days ago 160 posts - 159 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 21 of 24 15 March 2008 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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It's somewhat amusing to see a language learner lecturing native speakers about what words mean.
I'm not a psychologist, but in my experience with technical literature, words are very rarely interchangeable. The whole point of technical jargon is to define extremely precise shades of meaning. Katherine 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 22 of 24 15 March 2008 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I am Spanish, but are basically the same terms in Spanish Implicit means implícito in Spanish. subliminal means subliminal in Spanish. Unconscious means inconsciente in Spanish. I am physician and psychologist as well. I know what I am talking about. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6678 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 23 of 24 15 March 2008 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I think this discussion about terminology is a red herring, but here you have some references.
Subliminal perception and its cognates: theory, indeterminacy, and time. Erdelyi MH. Brooklyn College and the Graduate School, CUNY, Brooklyn, NY 11210, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14990242 "Unconscious processes, by whatever name they may be known (e.g., "subliminal," "implicit"), are invariably operationalized by the dissociation paradigm, any situation involving the dissociation between two indicators (or sets of indicators)...." Implicit Learning Carol Augart Seger, a, Department of Psychology, Franz Hall, 405 Hilgard Avenue, University of California, Los Angeles, California 90024, USA http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W Y5-46SGJVW-X&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1994&_alid=706779 716&_rdoc=15&_fmt=summary&_orig=mlkt&_cdi=7177&_sort=v&_st=1 7&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2179&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_u rlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5f02ea0815c29cb71040e8c5e9a00415 "Implicit learning is nonepisodic learning of complex information in an incidental manner, without awareness of what has been learned.. Implicit learning experiments use 3 different stimulus structures (visual, sequence, and function) and 3 different dependent measures or response modalities (conceptual fluency, efficiency, and prediction and control). Implicit learning may require a certain minimal amount of attention and may depend on attentional and working memory mechanisms. The result of implicit learning is implicit knowledge in the form of abstract (but possibly instantiated) representations rather than verbatim or aggregate representations. Implicit learning shows biases and dissociations in learning different stimulus structures. The dependence of implicit learning on particular brain areas is discussed, some conclusions are drawn for modeling implicit learning, and the interaction of implicit and explicit learning is considered." 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6154 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 24 of 24 18 March 2008 at 5:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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This is a very interesting, if somewhat detailed, thread. I'm wondering if "Illusion of Truth" problems can occur with language learning, and the use of implicit memory. From wikipedia,
Illusion-of-truth effect The illusion-of-truth effect states that a person is more likely to believe a familiar statement than a new one. This would imply that we can hear a language pattern, which may be incorrect, and believe it to be valid at some later point. This is likely to occur in a classroom setting, where other language learners are contructing sentences. Unless the mistake is corrected, could it potentially seep into implicit memory, and reoccur later, because it "sounds right" ? Edited by DaraghM on 18 March 2008 at 5:10am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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