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Some thoughts on accent and pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| qklilx Moderator United States Joined 6185 days ago 459 posts - 477 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Korean Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 43 22 April 2008 at 1:33am | IP Logged | |||||
It could be well under 15 years. Who knows if you'll master idioms or pronunciation first! And if you practice enough and imitate various speaking styles enough (not only dialects but singers, actors, etc) you could very well "beat" others in the task. I only provided that number to give an idea of a sort of maximum amount of time. Of course, one should never underestimate the amount of time it takes. In writing this something came to mind. Professor, would you say that the ability to speak as fast as or faster than a native should come into play in determining one's accent and pronunciation? I have known people whose accents are quite distinct unless they slow down significantly (though not to a crawl), at which point their accent becomes barely noticeable or better. - Evan 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 7076 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 10 of 43 22 April 2008 at 1:50am | IP Logged | |||||
I think so. The metre of your speech is all part of your idiolect. And in striving to get our accent as near as possible to our target language, we also have to factor in the correct intonation, rhythm, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6767 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 11 of 43 22 April 2008 at 6:43am | IP Logged | |||||
In addition, speaking a foreign language at full native speed (and being understood) is practically impossible if you're not forming the sounds correctly, so being able to talk quickly and intelligibly would be a good indicator of your overall pronunciation accuracy. Edited by Captain Haddock on 22 April 2008 at 6:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Marc Frisch Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6664 days ago 1001 posts - 1169 votes Speaks: German*, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Persian, Tamil | Message 12 of 43 22 April 2008 at 7:46am | IP Logged | |||||
From my own experience, it takes much longer and many people never attain such a level. Most people I know who have spent years in a different country are between levels 4 and 6 and I can even think of a guy who after 25 years in an English speaking country still has a heavy German accent (that would be level 3). My strongest foreign language is French, which I have started learning at the age of 10 and in which I have been immersed for over four years, but I still wouldn't claim anything more than 7 or 8 (and in comparison with many people in the same situation I'm above average). There's a huge difference of learning a language as a child and learning as an adult, as you don't have any other languages wired into your brain that interfere with your language learning. As Professor Arguelles pointed out, pronunciation depends more heavily on your talent than other skills and at a certain point you might just stop making any progress, because you don't "hear" your accent anymore (which is crucial for improvement). That being said, my goal in the languages I aim for 5-6, and I don't know really see a good reason for trying to be better than that if it doesn't come natural to you. There are close to no benefits of speaking exactly like a native compared to speaking with a slight accent. Edited by Marc Frisch on 22 April 2008 at 7:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6677 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 13 of 43 22 April 2008 at 8:20am | IP Logged | |||||
I also think level 5 is ideal, beyond that is just a bonus and not really necessary. I don't really see why I would want to efface my Swedish:ness completely, unless it is something that happens naturally while living in that country for several years. Perhaps my case is a little bit different though, since all the French friends I have tend to be Scandinavophiles, and thus they just say they adore my Swedish accent. When I hear people speak languages with an accent, I usually forget about it after the first couple of sentences, and just incorporate their way of speaking into their personality. They become a little bit more special. As an example, a young man of Finnish origin was recently in my shop, speaking good Norwegian but with the typical, quite heavy Finnish accent. His accent was just charming and I understood him perfectly well, while native Norwegians from the west/northwest make me cringe when they speak (and have me go "HÆ?" [what?] way too often). So: I often find dialects "uglier" than foreign accents. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| IbanezFire Senior Member United States Joined 6693 days ago 119 posts - 124 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Russian | Message 14 of 43 22 April 2008 at 8:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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What about accent and identity?
Maybe some people keep their accent to help preserve their identity? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| TheElvenLord Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6079 days ago 915 posts - 927 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Cornish, English* Studies: Spanish, French, German Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 15 of 43 22 April 2008 at 8:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks
I think i would be 5 throught studying - and while there (in the country) aim for 7-8 perhaps TEL 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6315 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 16 of 43 27 April 2008 at 12:40am | IP Logged | |||||
Quite agree. I would personally find it very weird indeed, if a non-native speaker were to produce ungrammatical or awkwardly structured sentences, but flawlessly pronounce every word. Thank you, Professor, for this detailed analysis. It is quite admirable how some people are able to acheive highly polished accents, considering I have been studying German for close to seven years and would still consider myself a 4 at best on the scale. I still have a lot of work to do. Out of curiosity, what do you personally make of this man's Korean accent? Edited by Fränzi on 27 April 2008 at 12:44am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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