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Snowflake’s Mandarin Log | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5957 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes  Studies: Mandarin | Message 169 of 740 21 October 2009 at 3:41am | IP Logged |
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Have had some incidents where after using a phrase from one of my Taiwan produced movies, my class instructor corrected me. The corrections have not been about tones or grammar, but to instead use an entirely different sentence that is more direct. And in case anyone is wondering, these phrases I’ve been using use standard grammar and vocabulary that is common between the mainland and Taiwan. I’m unsure what to make of these incidents.
I’m getting the impression that northerners generally have difficulty distinguishing between Cantonese and Taiwan accents. My throat hurts more these days ....it's those g sounds. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5957 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 170 of 740 24 October 2009 at 7:38am | IP Logged |
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I found a post, in a different forum, by someone who says he is a permanent resident of Taiwan and Singapore. He mentioned that mainland Mandarin phrases tend to be direct and can sound a bit imposing. By contrast, in Taiwan, Standard Mandarin phrases tend to indirect which he thought was more refined.
Am finding that my instructors' comments, about accents, is making me very conscious of mine. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5957 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 171 of 740 26 October 2009 at 4:18am | IP Logged |
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Feel a little better about the accent business.... A person, from Hong Kong who attended university in Taiwan, has been saying that my Mandarin is very good. I personally think that's an exaggeration given my accent and lack of vocabulary. Then someone else, from Hunan, agreed. They both said that they have no difficulty understanding me. Generally that is not necessarily a compliment though later I realized that they rarely have had to correct my tones or grammar. Before anyone thinks I am doing a lot of conversing in Mandarin, I still do relatively little talking. My speech, or lack thereof, reminds me of the development stages that children go through. Anyhow, they basically both said that the accent would come in time. Then I met someone, who is Toishanese. She relearned Toishanese, learned Cantonese and Mandarin. She knows some Taiwanese and I don't know what else (she said she's good at picking up languages). She was also encouraging me in my Mandarin studies.
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| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5957 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 172 of 740 02 November 2009 at 5:58am | IP Logged |
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Thinking about accents again though from a different slant....just got some movies which I think have a Guangdong accent. The r's seem nonexistent, shi sounds like si and there seems to be no tongue curling on sh and x. Then mentioned to a friend, from Taiwan, that my class instructor stated she has a standard Mandarin accent though once mentioned (actually mumbled to herself) a Dalian accent. My friend insisted that a Dalian accent is not standard Mandarin. It turns out she has a Dalian friend and understands only 50% of that friends' Mandarin. This Dalian friend did grow up speaking Mandarin in her family. Anyhow, my iPod right now is loaded with a relatively wide assortments of accents.
I have a chunk of vacation time as I was saving it up to visit China this fall. So am now trying to figure out what to do. One of the things I'm looking at is the Concordia Language Village program, though there seems to be no provision for an airport shuttle. While the site is considered close enough, I'm not keen on driving that distance. I'm also annoyed by a phrase on the site mentioning that Chinese uses 21 characters of the Latin alphabet and that it's pronounced the way it's written (must be talking about Pinyin). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5984 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 173 of 740 02 November 2009 at 7:52am | IP Logged |
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A Cantonese accent in Mandarin is different than other southern accents. I spent 7 months in Hangzhou and I could tell when someone was a Cantonese speaker because the accent was slightly different than the Hangzhou accent. But generally, you're correct...for both, the retroflex sounds (sh, zh, ch, r) change or disappear.
For working on accents, step one is always to do lots and lots of listening (movies are great). Next is being aware of some of the technical details of the production of the sounds (you seem to have that too). Then you find recordings of some voices whose accent you like, and try to duplicate the recordings exactly. To do this, you play the (short) recordings over and over and over until they are stuck in your head, then you try to say them perfectly. You record yourself saying them, and then listen to yourself and try to spot the differences. and repeat and repeat :) According to some studies, it helps to have more than one "correct" voice. If you have more than one example voice with a good accent, then you can better figure out which sounds are "acceptable" and which ones aren't. There's always a little bit of wiggle-room, but it's hard to figure out how much wiggle is ok if you only listen to one voice. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5957 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 174 of 740 04 November 2009 at 6:01pm | IP Logged |
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Doviende, thanks for the info. I was practicing speaking with a friend, at work and noticed my pronunciation was altered a bit toward the less desirable side. I suspect listening to the new movies is the reason. Maybe those particular movies will be shelved for a while. Edited by Snowflake on 04 November 2009 at 7:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5957 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 175 of 740 04 November 2009 at 6:02pm | IP Logged |
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Was told these two are the same;
忘记 wang4 ji4; to forget wang4 diu1 (don't have the character for diu1) Checked the driving distance to the Concordia Language Village session in Stillwater Minn; It's further than what a friend had mentioned. And it turns out that there is an airport shuttle. Sooooo, I am signed up for a weekend session next month. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| doviende Diglot Senior Member Canada languagefixatio Joined 5984 days ago 533 posts - 1245 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Hindi, Swedish, Portuguese | Message 176 of 740 04 November 2009 at 6:16pm | IP Logged |
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it sounds like you mean 丢 (diu1 = lose, drop). I've never heard 忘丢, though. nciku.com has no entry for that.
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