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The Dream Program | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Latin Newbie Chile Joined 7005 days ago 6 posts - 7 votes | Message 25 of 33 26 October 2005 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | ||
Your analysis of the two courses is very helpful. Now I'd like to take this quote to ask Is there any kind of 'logical' order to follow when it comes to grammar? Could you say that we can build the structure of a language putting the 'first floor' before the others? For ex. I think it's not proper to teach conjunctions as first thing, not before teaching pronouns or the present simple. So I wonder if it is possible to find some kind of natural order so that we can accelerate the learning process. My idea about a dream program is to find one that also is little time consuming. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JWC Groupie United States Joined 7104 days ago 69 posts - 107 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 26 of 33 26 October 2005 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sequence of introduction of material . . . hmm, that's interesting.
For Romance languages, I would do the following: 1. English parts of speech and basic grammar. As a subset, teach students to diagram an English sentence and label the parts of speech. For adult language learners, this is essential. At seminary, I saw students face enormous obstacles in learning modern Greek when they did not know basic English grammar and terms. This is not grammar in tedious detail--it would take only a few hours to review the same terminology one would thereafter use for the target language, but would eliminate substantial panic and confusion in many students upon delving into the target language. Students who have already studied another foreign language or remember English grammatical terms (and went to school in an era in which grammar was still drilled into students) could skip this step. 2. Lay out the present tense for the first regular verb and for the verb(s) "to be." 3. introduce basic articles (definite and indefinite) and adjectives. 4. introduce basic pronouns. 5. Practice making basic sentences in the present tense. 6. Lay out a verb chart for the first regular verb. Each day, go through one or more tenses, and through verbal forms such as infinitives or gerunds. Practice making basic sentences in each of the tenses/verb forms. 7. Go through a verb chart for each of the other regular verbs in the same way. 8. Go through how to link and connect clauses and secondary discourse. 9. With No. 8 above or shortly thereafter, go through the subjuntive (optative, etc.) forms for each of the regular verb forms above. 10. Learn interrogatory words and word sequence for questions. 12. Learn irregular verbs. 13. Learn prepositions. 14. Memorize list of all key verbs that commonly take certain prepositions. 15. Learn complex conditional language (future less vivid conditional clause, etc.). This transitions the speaker to the realm of possibilities and the ability to speak in the abstract, e.g., "If I were to do --x--, he would do --y--." 16. Learn irregular verbs (segmented approach working from a verb chart, as with all verbs above). 17. With this essential grammatical matrix (reinforced by repetition of exercises in all of the previous levels before going to the next level), acquire vocabulary systematically in thematic unites and use it in tons of exercises. Topics would be introduced systematically the way any college textbook on language works--ordinal numbers, cardinal numbers, days of the week, telling time, etc. The difference is that these vocabulary units can now be grafted into spoken and written exercises that involve complex grammar--which means the ability to make and comprehend more interesting sentences and phrases that can then stick in the mind through actual usage. 18. Master idiom, by going into (and using) a substantial list of the major essential expressions needed to express and understand the language. Everything listed above is not far removed from a direct word-to-word translation. That is what makes it a speedy process to learn and use. At this point, the speaker/writer/reader would begin to acquire a "feel" for the heart of the language. All of these steps require massive reinforcement of the language through exercises going back to the beginning and working up to the most recent lessons. The bottom line is, easy reinforcement without a huge vocabulary up front puts the syntax in first. Then, with syntax, vocabulary is anchored within the context of real language usage and not baby talk, so it is easier to remember associatively as a result. Someone with a solid grasp of basic grammar and grammatical terms in his native language could master steps 1-16 above in a targe language in about 2 to 3 weeks of full time study. Steps 16 - 18 could take another 3-6 months of full time study. But how much more fun than spending 3-6 months before being able to say a complex sentence for the first time? With systematic reinforcement of grammar and idiom (coupled with a full answer key), the student would hit month 6 with essential grammar burned in his or her brain since the 2nd or 3rd week (with the fine distinctions of idiomatic usage and more esoteric grammatical variations spread out through a process of exercises that reinforce and make the student "use" the language. How is this different? This is not the grammar + the telephone book school of language usage. It is heavily based, instead on exercises that readily recycle core grammar as vocabulary is introduced. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7211 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 27 of 33 26 October 2005 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Those are some inspirational posts. In addition to
PSp, your idea reminds me a bit of the Barrons book Spanish for Reading, which is a also a programmed approach. The Barrons book doesn't have a lot of what you describe though. There is an online book mentioned in a thread entitled "www.sil.org" that discusses different learning styles of successful students. I'd be curious what you think of that. Edited by luke on 26 October 2005 at 9:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6157 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 28 of 33 16 April 2008 at 6:55am | IP Logged | ||
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My dream course would be a single MP3 file that says "Kaazaam Hungarian", and after a second you speak Hungarian like a native. On a more realistic note, I'd love an all audio course similar to LIYC but with detailed grammar explanations in the audio. I'd also love if it went to at least 20 CD's, and was available in any language I'd ever forsee myself studying.
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| Leopejo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6115 days ago 675 posts - 724 votes Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English Studies: French, Russian | Message 29 of 33 16 April 2008 at 8:26am | IP Logged | ||
Would it? Isn't the learning itself part of the fun? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6157 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 30 of 33 17 April 2008 at 9:53am | IP Logged | ||
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The learning is fun, but it would be nice to get a perfect accent. I've a very strong native accent, which can overpower my attempts at speaking Hungarian, Russian or Spanish.
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| ChristopherB Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 6322 days ago 851 posts - 1074 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 31 of 33 21 April 2008 at 2:45am | IP Logged | ||
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Programs like Assimil and Linguaphone are almost my dream program. With a bit of tweaking - more natural speech, more lessons for certain languages etc. - it would be perfect for me. I don't want to be stuck on learner content forever, nor do I want "advanced lessons on special situations". I just want a feel for the language - which means a solid, foundational vocabulary and grammar - then I can improve through authentic content such as literature. Language programs are there simply to give you a base on which to improve.
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| AlexL Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7090 days ago 197 posts - 277 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 32 of 33 04 May 2008 at 9:41am | IP Logged | ||
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I know this is an old thread, but what was described on the first few pages sounds a bit like FSI Standard Chinese--a Pimsleur-like beginning (on tapes C-1 and P-1), drills (D-1), and book-oriented materials (C-2 and P-2) for each lesson, and a whole ton of lessons.
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