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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3585 of 3959 26 April 2014 at 11:51am | IP Logged |
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I haven't written in this log for a couple of days so if I should report everything I have done within that time span it would be somewhat longwinded and potentially boring. I have dug up a couple of sources which I have used for intensive studies many times, but which then somehow got buried under avalanches of new material. For instance I did a full page of Asterix in Greek, all the sights associated with nature in my guide to Singapura in Indonesian and a dialog about photos in my Polish textbook (where the most puzzling thing was that the normal word for 'photo' in Polish apparently is something as idiosyncratic as "zdjęcie") . I also listened to the news in Polish and Croatian and Spanish, but most of the TV I have watched for content has been in English - or I have turned down the sound and just read the Danish subtitles while listening to old tapes with music by Beethoven concertos.
The one new thing I have stumpled over in the period under scrutiny was a video by the French hyperpolyglot Hugues Baudrillart with 24 languages in 28.37 minuts AND a very faithful summary on a Russian language learning website Зарядка полиглота. RU: На самом деле, я прочитал запись до него, что я слушал на видео, однако в докладе является очень точно - за исключением российской части, которых лишь утверждал, что "так что всё и так понятно". Да - специально для российских слушателей! Но мсье Бодрияр говорит очень ясно, так что я довольно много понял - хотя и не в последних разделах с арабского языка на персидский. Запись заканчивается, однако, на номинальной 19, монгольский. Я впечатлен! And now I'm going to spend a couple of hours on my 'corpus' project, where I'll transform this log into a series of corpora, one for each language (and restricted to my own utterances). As stated in the thread about restricted vocabularies the longterm goal is to analyse the size of my actually used vocabulary on subsets of varying size in English and wit comparable corpus sizes across languages. And as I side effect I'll also be reminded about all the weird subjects which I/we have discussed in this monster thread. UPDATE: after a good hour's work I have now reached the messages which were written in November 2009, and according to the word count of MS Word my English corpus now consists of 76.770 words covering one full year. I doubt that my level in English in 2006 (where I collected around 15000 words from my writings in the whole HTLAL from a 3 months' period) was very different from my level in 2008-9, but the shift from all of HTLAL to just my own log may have meant a more heterogenous subject matter. This can however be checked by comparing the number of unique words within the first (or last) 15000 words from the new sample with those from 2006). So I have decided to make a change in my goal: almost 78.000 English words must be enough, but I have much smaller samples from other languages so here there would be a point in adding material from a longer period. Right now German is the best represented of the lot with some 10.000 words, whereas I only have written 34 in Old French (for good reasons: I don't have a something--> Old French dictionary and don't study it actively). The logical thing will therefore be to skip passages in English from now on and only collect passages in other languages until I have reached 15.000 words in at least half a dozen languages. And then I can see which numbers of unique words I get with the first 15000 words in each subcorpus. One funny detail which I almost had forgotten: I actually compiled a number of sentences in Serbian as far back as 2009 after a trip to the Balkan area. But it was more like solving puzzles than free expression - and this is naturally also the case for a number of other small samples, which therefore essentially are flawed if the goal is to analyze the proportion of unique words in freely produced text streams. But I can't change this. Even the relative numbers of dictionary lookups vary between my languages - but right now I'm more interested in seeing whether I express myself differently in different languages (in writing, not in speech), and the artificial character of some of my writings in weak languages is part of that picture. I could of course study texts written by native writers instead, but I'm more interested in revisiting my own mediocre effusions than in counting words in the masterworks produced by the native writers. Edited by Iversen on 26 April 2014 at 2:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3586 of 3959 26 April 2014 at 3:01pm | IP Logged |
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I just realized something... that's the same
Hugues who has been taking Dutch class with me... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5846 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 3587 of 3959 26 April 2014 at 10:16pm | IP Logged |
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Iversen, for me it would be interesting to know the percentages of all the languages you have written in during the whole duration of your Multiconfused Log. You could calculate this per words (which would be an awful lot of work) or per number of posts.
Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 26 April 2014 at 10:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3588 of 3959 27 April 2014 at 9:55pm | IP Logged |
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Actually this is part of the project which I described in the thread about vocabulary among English students. I first split the first year from November 2008 to November 2009 according to language (excluding quotes and messages from others - including those from Fasulye herself, sorry), and yesterday I added all of 2013 and 2014 until now, but dropped English after having reached 77000. So I can't give a total number for English, but only compare it to the numbers for other languages from the first year, and my impression is of course that I write too much in English.
As my goal is 15000 words or so for at least some of the languages (which makes a comparison with my English survey from 2006 and with a subsegment of the current one possible) I have to add some of 2012 to the quest before I make calculations concerning the numebr of unique words in different languages. But I can give my numbers for different languages so far, though with a giant hole from ultimo 2009 to New year 2012. I'll just find those numbers, and then I return here to give you the result. ... and now the figures are ready: ENGLISH: . . . . .75838 + (mgl) DANISH: . . . . . 3552 + 210 SYNNEJYSK: . . 21 + 0 SWEDISH: . . . .. 2201 + 1574 NORWEGIAN: . .1080 + 629 ICELANDIC: .. . . 2363 + 744 SCOTS: . . . . . . 382 + 775 HIGH German: 8280 + 3668 LOW German: 1122 + 411 DUTCH: … .. . . 4485 + 2106 AFRIKAANS: .. .1203 + 902 LATIN: . . . . . . .2920 + 675 FRENCH: . . . ..9588 + 4293 OLD FRENCH: . 35 + 0 PORTUGUESE: . 2481 + 1148 SPANISH: . .. .. .4019 + 2749 CATALAN: . . . .2883 + 619 ITALIAN: . . . . . 6849 + 1819 ROMANIAN: . ..3930 + 1687 RUSSIAN: . . . .2573 + 1707 POLISH: . . . . . . 0 + 556 SERBIAN: . . . ..220 + 86 MOD.GREEK: . . 2349 + 1150 IRISH: . . . . . . .. 0 + 952 ESPERANTO: . . 1629 + 1602 INDONESIAN: . 33 + 985 The first column is for the first year from Nov. 2008, and the last one is for the words from 2013 and 2014. The numbers are not scientifically correct because I haven't cleansed the texts from short inline quotes in other languages, only from long quotes which were easy to spot in the text, and there are also foreign words, formulas, grammatical endings etc.in the text which should have been removed first. But the proportions should be right. And the low scores for the last 16 months are not something I'm particularly proud of, but it is a sombre fact that I wrote almost twice as much in HTLAL at large in 2009 as I did in 2013 - as confirmed by the graphics at my profile. PS: I also calculated the number of letters per word in those languages. English was fairly low with 4.6 (only Scots, Low German, Afrikaans, Romanian and Synnejysk were lower). Topscorer at the other end of the scale was as expected Latin with 6.0, High German with 5.4, Indonesian with 5.5, Polish 5.4, Russian 5.3 - but Serbian with just 4.7 showed that Slavic languages can be economical with their letters. ENGLISH: . 4,6 DANISH: . 4,6 SYNNEJYSK: . 3,7 SWEDISH: . 4,7 NORWEGIAN: . 4,6 ICELANDIC: . 4,7 SCOTS: . 4,3 HIGH German: . 5,4 LOW German: . 4,5 DUTCH: . 4,8 AFRIKAANS: . 4,5 LATIN: . 6,0 FRENCH: . 4,8 OLD FRENCH: . 4,8 PORTUGUESE: . 4,7 SPANISH: . 4,7 CATALAN: . 4,6 ITALIAN: . 5,0 ROMANIAN: . 4,5 RUSSIAN: . 5,3 POLISH: . 5,4 SERBIAN: . 4,7 MOD.GREEK: . 5,1 IRISH: . 4,5 ESPERANTO: . 5,0 INDONESIAN: . 5,5 Edited by Iversen on 29 April 2014 at 12:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3589 of 3959 28 April 2014 at 12:52am | IP Logged |
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And now I just wrote a lot of English again. Sorry about that. So to make amends a few words in other languages:
RU: Вчера вечером я зареорганизировал содержание моей бахтенной нитки, рассортировая её на группы по языку. Прямо - до пасхи - я обращал техты одны годы, бчера техты одны годы и четыре мецяцы, а достхыгнал менше инностранных слов, чем в первом корпусом из 2008-9 (только одна года) . Во втором корпусом не далее собирал слово па-английский. Ежё не подсчитал количество слов илспользовано или количество уникальных слов, а нитка без сомнения был менее активная в 2013 году, чем в 2009 году. Севодня я опять цделал оценку моего запаса слов как делал 2013 году. Результат: около 9400 знакомые слова (34%), 4400 явных слова (16%) и 16.300 непонятные слова (49%) из словаря Гылдендал (Gyldendal) с 29.000 слова по моим оценкам. Я надеялся на самом деле на большее продвижения с прошлого года. FR: Il s'est avéré que le français, et non pas l'allemand, fut la deuxième language sur ma liste selon le nombre de mots que j'ai utilisé ici pendant les deux periodes examinées. Je n'ai pas amassé les mots anglais de 2013-14, mais si on regarde seulement la première periode, l'Anglais l'a gagné avec 75.838 mots (après un peu de nettoyage) contre 64.198 pour l'ensemble de toutes les autres langues représentées ici. Et je doute que cette déséquilibre a changée depuis lors. Or la baisse d'activité globale est du moins autant de problématique. Il va de soi que je serais heureux pour toute contribution d'autrui qui me pourrait aider à sortir de cette léthargie misérable - quoique il faut admettre que le problème ne pas soit limité à mon fil de journal de bord. CAT: I per augmentar un poc el nombre de paraulles en llengues no-angleses, a continuació l'informe del que vaig fer aquesta tarda a la ciutat: jo havia decidit d'anar a la ciutat de Skanderborg a uns 20 chilometri al sud de Århus, pero perquè el meu relotge no mostrava el temps corecte jo perdí el autobus i també el tren a Skanderborg, i por això he visitat la Ciutat Vella de Århus (un lloc similar al Poble Espanyol de Barcelona) i després les hivernacles de l'universitat. Així va ser que jo no vaig estudiar qualsevol idioma al llarg de la tarda, amb l'excepció del dinamarquès. Una de les coses divertides de la Ciutat vella és que té dues branques: una corresponent a 1864 i l'altre al any de 1970, i els empregats que animen el departament vell es negan a reconèixer de lloc l'existència de la part nova, pel que té de tenir molta cura de no parlar dels esdeveniments de l'època després de 1864. Per exemple, al mi va acudir una vegada parlar d'una pastisseria en la part nova, de la qual els 1864'os no sabien res - "probablement va ser un fals rumor que els alemanys havien estès", como van dir (els alemanys definitivament no eren populars a Dinamarca en el any de la guerra de 1864!). I durant la visita de avui, em caldria atribueixar el meu coneixement de la situació al fet que jo havia llegit un diari i també al fet de tenir un telègraf molt moderna i personal a la meva casa (si jo hagués parlat de la televisió, m'haurien referit a la casa de bojos novament construida en Risskov en Århus, que per cert encara existeix). GER: Für die wenigen HTLAL-Mitglieder, deren Katalanisch noch etwas wackelich sei, möchte ich dies auch auf Deutsch schreiben. Ich habe heute die Gewächshäuser des örtlichen Universitäts und unsere 'Alte Stadt' besucht. Es gibt in diesem Freilichtmuseum zwei Abteile, die Seite bei Seite liegen. Der alte Teil soll das Kriegsjahr 1864 darstellen wo Bismarck Schleswig-Holstein eroberte (und wo die Deutschen deshalb absolut nicht hier in Dänemark populär waren). Der neue Teil darstellt das Jahr 1970, und es wird noch daran gebaut. Das interessante ist, das diejenige Angestellte die im alten Teil arbeiten absolut nichts vom neuen Teil wissen wollen, und man muß darum sehr genau damit sein, woüber man mit ihnen diskutiert. Ich habe einmail zufällig das Konditerei im neuen Stadtteil erwähnt, aber dieses Örtchen kannten sie nicht - es müßte sich sicherlich um bösartigen Gerüchte, handelen verbreitet von den grausamen Deutschen, denn jeder wusste ja, dass es keine Häuser auf der Seite ihrer Stadt gäbe. Es könnte im Prinzip die Deutschen selber sein, die sich da draußen auf der Allmende niedergelassen hatten, und dann würde es ganz schlimm sein, ihnen so nahe auf die Alte Stadt zu haben... Oh weh, welche Zeiten! Heute war ich vorsichtiger, aber ich mußte einige meiner Aussagen über die Situation damit erklären, daß ich Zeitungen lese und dazu noch ein eigenes sehr moderne Telegraf zu Hause hätte. Es hätte nichts genützt ihnen vom Fernsehen oder Computer zu sprechen - sie hätten mir dann eher als einen Kandidat für das neugebaute Irrenhaus in Risskov gehalten. Dies existiert übrigens noch, aber wird vermutlich bald as Teil eines neuen MonsterSuperHospitals in Skejby eingestuft. PO: Teraz, i słyszę program o Janie Pawle II w języku polskim. Niestety krzyczy hymny, i że nienawidzę to. Nie masz zrobić cuda, aby wznieść się do świętego? Edited by Iversen on 28 April 2014 at 9:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3590 of 3959 29 April 2014 at 12:07pm | IP Logged |
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Yesterday I went to the library, where there is something called a 'language café' at 16 o'clock. This is a bit too early for me so I have only been there three times, and yesterday there was only one active table, namely the Spanish one (apart from a table with three immigrant girls who clearly had their own project running). So I spent an hour and a half speaking Spanish with two relatively young ladies, an elderly lady (who was French, but spoke Spanish like a native speaker), a native speaker from Peru and a Norwegian student who had to pass a test in Spanish soon and who therefore needed some training.
SP: Ayer visité nuestra biblioteca municipal donde hay cada lunes a las 16:00 horas un "language café" donde se puede encontrar gente que desean hablar por ejemplo español, francés, alemán o inglés (en principio tambien otros idiomas, se hay bastante gente para formar un grupo). Las cuatro es normalmente demasiado temprano porque yo estoy en mi lugar de trabajo almeno hasta las cuatro y medio, però algunas veces es possible irme. He estado allí tres veces: la prima vez he hablado Danés a un anciano de Afghanistan que necesitaba entrenamiento en hablar Danés. La segunda vez habia una conversación en francés sobre viajes, peró esta vez - con el glorioso sol afuera - havia solo dos tablas activas, una com tres jovencitas immigrantes que formaban su proprio grupo y otro tablero hispanohablante, donde se discutaban (entre otro) viajes y comidas durante viajes. Y esto es un problema porque generalmente yo no me recuerdo de mis comidas - el que no excluye que yo sea muy particular con mis hábitos alimenticios. Peró se puede decir con certeza que nunca he probado platos como paella o gazpacho. He dicho que nunca me recuerdo de mis comidas, pero esto no es vero. Me recuerdo de una pizza en Cadaqués (ciudad de Dalì) porque tomei una fotografía de ella con el Mediterráneo blu como telón de fondo, me recuerdo de lomos enormes sin verduras en Buenos Aires, me recuerdo tambien que retornei un bistec a la cocina en Cartagena en Colombia porque fue sangriente en el interior (yo había expresamente pedido un filete 'bien cocido') y me recuerdo de una antigua pasterlería (Puerta Falsa) en Bogotá donde compré deliciosos pasteles cada día durante mi visita. Peró no estoy gastronomo y durante mis viajes yo come principalmente para poder continuar mi viaja sin morrer de hambre, y no para me recordar de las delicias después o escribir libros sobre platos especificos. Edited by Iversen on 29 April 2014 at 3:49pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Zireael Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4650 days ago 518 posts - 636 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English | Message 3591 of 3959 29 April 2014 at 1:20pm | IP Logged |
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hispanoparlantes? shouldn't it be hispanohablantes?
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| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 3592 of 3959 29 April 2014 at 3:46pm | IP Logged |
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Si
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