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Ungrateful Natives | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| OlafP Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5434 days ago 261 posts - 667 votes  Speaks: German*, French, English | Message 105 of 139 16 March 2010 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Right on the spot. A stoic attitude is the solution to most problems. The storm will tell you whether you're happy or not. It reminds the unhappy of the fragility of his house and wakes him from slight slumber and heavy dreams. To the happy it sings the melody of his security, and its furious sough will tell him that it has no power over him anymore.* Since we are into language learning anyway, we may as well add Latin and Greek to our study plans, which would confront us with Seneca and Plato. Once Socrates was unjustly attacked by someone in a public situation, and he didn't respond at all. Someone who had witnessed the scene asked him later: "This guy was mocking you! Why didn't you defend yourself?" Socrates replied: "Would you sue a donkey if it kicked you?" If you work hard to improve your skills you will get so much unjustified praise that you should be able to deal with unjustified blame. The smart will not take offence at insults, the wise will deny that they ever happened. *) This was a rough translation of an aphorism by Theodor Adorno: "Ob einer glücklich ist, kann er dem Winde anhören. Dieser mahnt den Unglücklichen an die Zerbrechlichkeit seines Hauses und jagt ihn aus leichtem Schlaf und heftigem Traum. Dem Glücklichen singt er das Lied seines Geborgenseins: sein wütendes Pfeifen meldet, dass er keine Macht mehr hat über ihn." 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5370 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 106 of 139 16 March 2010 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well said Olaf.One must develop a stotic attitude and a pretty thick skin.One must perservere and soldier on in their language studies no matter how bad the situation is or how choppy the waters are. As I said before.'Never argue with an idiot' or in the experience of language learning.'Never argue with an idiot,especailly if you're not fluent in their language'.Because they can run rings around you if you're fluent in their language. It always better to remember the positives of the natives rather than the negatives. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hvorki_ne Groupie Joined 5385 days ago 72 posts - 79 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Icelandic | Message 107 of 139 17 March 2010 at 2:10am | IP Logged | |||||
Why? I don't forget the negatives of americans- why do non-americans deserve better? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5370 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 108 of 139 17 March 2010 at 2:23am | IP Logged | |||||
Please keep politics out of it...This a language forum,not a political forum... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kurkko Diglot Newbie Finland Joined 5674 days ago 21 posts - 23 votes Studies: Swedish, Finnish*, English Studies: German, Dutch, Danish, Icelandic | Message 109 of 139 19 March 2010 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hmm... Interesting topic. I haven't been that active in this forum since I moved from Finland to Germany (temporarily) and with my little knowledge of German I've already managed to make the natives look at me with the look of "Ah, foreigner."
I understand that, since I AM a foreigner and I have many problems with German pronunciation. For example, I still very much like to roll the 'r' rather than make the German 'r'. It makes ordering "Eine Currywurst" sometimes difficult. Or even as simple as Strawberry ice cream! The place where I'm living now is a small town, where surprisingly few shopkeepers seem to know English. But it isn't my first language either, so we should all be equal here. :) (And we all have quite strong accents in English too.....) This far the most nasty native speakers have been the Swedes. I truly hope that I've only bumped into the wrong people. I feel like whenever I go, my accent will always follow me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5351 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 111 of 139 04 April 2010 at 12:05am | IP Logged | |||||
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Without trying to stereotype groups of people, I believe that some groups of people, as a whole, are more sympathetic as listeners, when it comes to dealing with foreign speakers of their native tongue. Sometimes a few Pimsleur phrases will make all the difference, whereas other times the people will not be impressed, and the reaction may not be as pleasant for the non-native speaker.
Last semester at the university I had been taking Spanish classes. The summer prior, a friend of mine from the former Yugoslavia area (he has been living in the USA for quite some time now, and has never told me which country he is from, though I would guess Croatia) taught me a few phrases and words in Serbo-Croatian. He was going to teach private classes in the summer, but things fell through, and I only ended up knowing a few “courtesy” phrases. One day while waiting for my Spanish class to begin, I exchanged a few words to the Serbian student in my Spanish class, and at first he looked at me in disbelief, then I saw the biggest smile on his face. He immediately wanted to know how and why I learned these words, and he always talks with me since, if we run into each other on campus, despite the fact that we really don’t know each other well. At the local European grocery store, I have received similar responses from the Bosnian owner. I do not know how to say much, though I don’t pretend that I do, but the effort has been well received. A similar response has been made when I go to the local pizza shop and order my food in Spanish, and try to have small conversations. The (Mexican) owners love that I am making an effort, and they teach me how to say new words and phrases, and really encourage me. Then again, a large portion of the citizens in my (small) community are of the opinion that since the Hispanic people are moving to our little town, they should learn English, as opposed to the Americans learning Spanish. So to take a few Spanish classes and try to say a few things, probably does make the restaurant owner and his employees happy. Overall, I think that if the language is a minority language, one will generally find a better reception. So many people learn English, French, German, Spanish, and Russian as a second language, that the natural response would be “You know a few phrases in French…so what?” If someone spoke a bit of Haitian Creole, however, the response would be “How did you learn that?” and already one is ahead of the game a bit. Finally, as a few others have mentioned, unless one makes it explicitly clear that he or she is just using a few courtesy phrases such as hello, goodbye and thank you, I find it always to be a bad idea to try to converse in a foreign tongue without some level of being able to have a conversation. If I am able to talk about food, my family, and my university studies, that is enough to “get by” with a conversation at the pizza shop, but in other situations, it would just frustrate and annoy people, as it isn’t so practical. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 112 of 139 04 April 2010 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In life, you get out what you put in.
If, like tracker465, you approach language as a means of demonstrating respect to its speakers, you'll generally be appreciated. If you take too much pride in your language learning ability, if you expect it to earn you respect, it won't. If you're the sort of person who uses a term like "ungrateful natives", I would suspect you're in that category. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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