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Hungarian Postpositions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5884 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 1 of 9 24 January 2009 at 11:29am | IP Logged | ||
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I've drawn this picture to help myself with Hungarian postpositions.
In my opinion, this is another very nice, logical and interesting feature of Hungarian language, which I'm not only learning (though only a beginner) but enjoying more and more. 
If the link doesn't work (or my forum membership doesn't allow it) here is the address: img212.imageshack. us/img212/5332/ postpositionsoi4 .jpg Please, let me know if you have any corrections, suggestions or comments about this picture. I would be glad to improve it in any possible way. I know that there are still other postpositions and some of them in this picture have other meanings. But my idea was to, at least, better understand those postpositions in the movement and position context. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7158 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 2 of 9 24 January 2009 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't know about you but I learned that "át" meant "across" or "over" but "keresztül" meant "through" or "via" as your diagram indicates with "át".
You could also include köré / körül (around sg) or felé / felől (~ area of sg) but these last two sets don't make the 3-way distinction like most of the other postpositions in your diagram do. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageGeek Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6109 days ago 151 posts - 159 votes 4 sounds Speaks: German*, English, Hungarian Studies: French, Russian | Message 3 of 9 24 January 2009 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think you summed it up very nicely. Then you of course have the little words that indicate position: fent, lent, bent, kint. You have front/back: elül/hátul and the area words like the back, front, inner, outer part of sth. : hátsó, elülső, belső, külső. I never really dealt with diagrams though, I just learnt the stuff by context. Time spent drawing this nice picture could have been time reading stuff on blikk.hu ;) Edited by LanguageGeek on 24 January 2009 at 3:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageGeek Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6109 days ago 151 posts - 159 votes 4 sounds Speaks: German*, English, Hungarian Studies: French, Russian | Message 4 of 9 24 January 2009 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh, and it is wothwhile to remark another feature of Hungarians awsome grammatical structure. These spacial adverbs also take on personal endings and sometimes occure in figurative or idomatic senses. Examples:
Angolul beszélő van közöttetek? Is there an English speaker among you? Lezuhant a híd alólatok. The bridge crashed down from beneath you. Nem merészkedem az erdő belsejébe. I dont dare to advance into the inner part of the forest ( sounds somehow weird in Engliah) Ez a titok köztünk maradjon! This secret shall remain between us ( that is: dont tell anybody) Edited by LanguageGeek on 24 January 2009 at 4:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Flarioca Heptaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5884 days ago 635 posts - 816 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Esperanto, French, EnglishC2, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Catalan, Mandarin | Message 5 of 9 25 January 2009 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for your comments.
Chung, on both grammars I have here, át means, among other things, through. One of them ('Ungarishe Grammatik', by Tamás Forgács) put át and keresztül togheter. Maybe a native speaker could explain this, as well as the difference (if any) between felett and fölött. Languagegeek, I'm a beginner, so I can't read almost anything in Hungarian. Anyway, at this point, trying to understand more complex written material is not a part of my method. On the other hand, though I'm neither an artist nor a coreldraw expert, I have enough experience with this software to make easy drawings very quickly. I started to study Hungarian because of its agglutinative character and member of a possible ural-altaic family, among other minor reasons. However, I couldn't foresee that I would find it so fascinating. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LanguageGeek Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6109 days ago 151 posts - 159 votes 4 sounds Speaks: German*, English, Hungarian Studies: French, Russian | Message 6 of 9 25 January 2009 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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It was my method to approach authentic material right from the get-go. It doesn't have to be complex though. Treasure Island in Hungarian was the first text I read, afterwards 1984, both in their Hungarian translation of course. Before that I worked thwough the "Lehrbuch der Ungarischen Sprache" by Buske Verlag. But I only read and translated the narrative text of each lesson. I could not be bothered to do the countless written excercises for each lesson. Actually I managed to do them untill lesson 3 or 4 after which I had developed a sound distaste for any kind of language excercise. I felt them to be utterly superfluous yielding diminshing returns.
So the only method that I know and that I have proven to work for me is the direct approach, delving into the language early on, refering to grammar texts in an in promptu fassion, when a specific problem or question arised. (Btw also the one by Forgács) Afterwards I started to supplement reading by copious amounts of radio listening, advancing from getting nearly nothing to understanding 95 percent within 3-4 months. Then came MSN chatting with Hungarians, which I do untill today. There are many language exchange sites where you can befriend Hungarians, but the best place of course is nyelvcsere.hu. Once you have a good passive grasp of the language with a vocab of around 1500 words you can text chat quite easily. It will boost your repertoire of slang and informal language like nothing else, making you sound less foreing and "bookish" The last part was to start speaking actively. It was just a matter of breaking the shyness after all I had learned and studied before. Basically I was passively fluent by the time I started to actually speak the language. For this I tend to use Skype since it offers superior sound quality. The last step is to actually meet some of the more regular chat contacts in real life which I had the pleasure of doing twice on my trips to Budapest. So, as you see one does not necessarily need Corel Draw to learn Hungarian ;) Oh, and the difference between felett and fölött is that there is none, it is purely dialectal and both versions are accepted equally. Good luck and endurance. Sok sikert és kitartást. Edited by LanguageGeek on 25 January 2009 at 5:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| podjan Newbie Canada Joined 5783 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish, Finnish | Message 7 of 9 26 January 2009 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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LanguageGeek,
I'm curious as to how you managed to work through authentic material at such an early stage in your learning. I've been studying Finnish for just under 3 months now, and in that time I've worked through 2 beginner's books. I recently attempted some authentic material but was quickly frustrated by having to look up every second word. Was your approach simply to keep pushing on? What methods did you use to review/memorise vocabulary? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lustrenia Newbie Hungary Joined 5783 days ago 2 posts - 3 votes Speaks: Hungarian* Studies: English, French | Message 8 of 9 26 January 2009 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | ||
'Át' and 'keresztül' often means the same, a good example for this is 'across the road'; it also can mean 'át az úton' or 'keresztül az úton' in Hungarian. (But 'át az úton' is more frequently.) There's no difference between 'felett' and 'fölött' in meaning, we use both in every-day-speaking. 'Fölött' is just a variation of 'felett', which came into existence because of the too much 'e' character in the language ('Szeretlek' - I love you:]) - the many 'e' can make Hungarian a bit monotonic for a foreigner's ears. I hope I helped a bit. : ) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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