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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 81 of 407 17 March 2011 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Pero estudias muchos otros idiomas!
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 83 of 407 24 March 2011 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Most of the successful things we do to learn languages are not done deliberately.
Talent may just be the difference between doing these things instinctively and needing to be taught. Generally, I don’t think teaching methods matter – it’s what you do with the information you come across that really matters. I’ve never used a deliberate method and, until recently, I never really put much thought into what I do when I learn languages. I always just followed my instincts. Lately, however, quite a few people around me have been asking for help and I feel that I need to analyze the mechanisms I employ. Since these mechanisms are instinctive and unnoticed, it’s unlikely I’ve identified every important one, but here’s the process I’ve identified thus far: 1- Filtered Input 2- Meaningful Habit Formation 3- Monitoring/Updating Filtered Input As I’m not very patient, I need to make fast progress in order to remain motivated. When I start studying with any method, I filter the information and concentrate on what matters, skipping over what I consider useless, namely anything I won’t need to express myself in the short term. I still keep an open mind and expose myself to the other vocabulary presented, because I could be wrong, and important words will eventually turn up often enough that if I pay attention, I will still learn them over time, at least passively. Usually though, only a portion of what is presented is useful to me. On the other hand, I pay particular attention to grammar, and I concentrate a lot on the complete sentences that are introduced. They offer crucial insight into how the language works. I also pay close attention to pronunciation and general intonation. Meaningful Habit Formation When I encounter a new sentence structure, I try to turn it into a meaningful utterance. I use it in a context (in my head) where I need to express this information. I repeat it several times until I can say it without pause or hesitation, and until it feels natural and the words can accompany how I feel. At that point, I twist it around alternately changing the subject, the object, the verb, the tense, I make it longer, etc., each time making sure it remains meaningful to me. If I'm unsure about pronunciation, I look it up. Having a precise understanding of pronunciation makes acquisition and retention easier to me. As I do this, something else happens: I’m creating new habits. These new phrases become progressively automatic and the result is that I can use them to express myself naturally when a similar context arises in real life. Often times, I will even prepare for upcoming encounters in my head by having internal conversations, and I will look up words as needed. Note that this can be done just about anywhere, so there is no excuse not to improve! This particular step, I feel, is essential to achieving fluency early on. Many polyglots concentrate on vocabulary acquisition and don’t care much about fluency, but I concentrate on expressing myself as much as I can with the little vocabulary I have. I will also acquire a larger passive vocabulary, which will allow me to understand answers that cover more than my active vocabulary. Monitoring/Updating Habit formation is crucial in my quest for fluency. However, habits are inevitably formed at an early stage of the acquisition process and my understanding of words, usage, grammar, etc., is bound to be inaccurate at least occasionally and will need to be updated. As a result, it’s important to monitor new input to detect wrong assumptions and update habits as needed. This new information comes from exposure, and sometimes from the answers and corrections of native speakers. Not being understood is also a huge indication that something is wrong, and I try to address it right away by rephrasing over and over until I get it right, making a mental note of what didn’t get the message across. The new rewording will likely haunt me and become a large part of my internal discussions for a while. Some people are afraid of forming bad habits, and some will even avoid speaking for lengthy periods of time for that reason, but I think that forming bad habits is not only inevitable, it can also be helpful: as long as I continue to monitor new input and I’m willing to update my habits, the fact that I made an assumption -- even a wrong one -- is a very powerful mechanism for detecting and remembering future errors. If I expect the language to behave a certain way and it doesn’t, I know right away that something is wrong and it becomes easier to notice, correct and remember. Edited by Arekkusu on 27 March 2011 at 8:27pm 23 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5981 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 84 of 407 24 March 2011 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Just wanted to say thank you for an interesting post. I seem to have done quite well at bedding down techniques to improve my passive understanding, but have so far been at a loss when it comes to developing fluency. I will try to take on board some of your suggestions and see if I can make them work for me.
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 85 of 407 24 March 2011 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
Let me know how it works out! I'm very curious to see if these things generally work for other people. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5001 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 86 of 407 24 March 2011 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Let me just say that logs like this one make all the doubts I had about joining language learners on the Internet and exchanging information vanish within a second. Honestly, it is so refreshing to read your messages because they are full of passion about what you do. Besides, you give some really useful advice to other language learners and I have also benefited greatly from some of the responses you get because they, too, contain many useful hints and tips. I hope I'll be able to offer similar help to other people from time to time. I'll try to do my best, anyway. And, just for the record, your progress in Japanese within such a short period of time is almost mind-blowing. Hats off!
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5001 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 87 of 407 25 March 2011 at 12:01am | IP Logged | |||||
Well, to be honest, I found the DVDs to be not so expensive considering what American sitcom series cost here in Europe. Besides, I just use my normal DVD player but I guess this is due to the fact that you have the same system as the Americans and that's obviously different from the Japanese and European one. I bought most of my DVDs online from Malaysia. They were much cheaper than what I would have had to pay had I bought them in Japan. At least that's been my experience. I don't know why those DVDs were so expensive in Japan. Here's the link if someone is interested: http://www.zoommovie.com/japanese-tv-series-dvd/index (By the way, sometimes the titles are written in Chinese Mandarin on the DVD box but the audio is Japanese - if in doubt, check their online descriptions for each movie). I've never had any problems with their services. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5380 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 88 of 407 25 March 2011 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you for your kind words, Robert! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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