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Glossika Polyglot: Sentence Method | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6667 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 25 of 47 26 January 2011 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't like this forum because you are destroying all my heroes. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Elagabalus Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5186 days ago 12 posts - 30 votes Speaks: English*, PortugueseC1 Studies: Mandarin, German, Russian, French | Message 26 of 47 28 January 2011 at 1:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||
He definitely does comes off to me as wooden in Spanish, which is rather odd considering all his ear training. But, at issue here is the method, not him as a practitioner of the method. To that end, my question would be about the type of sentences to choose for the 10,000 sentences. It seemed like random ones or, at least, I don't recall anything stipulating the criteria for selecting them or grading them by structure or in some progression. In short, I question what appears to be a purely mechanical procedure. Learning a language cannot be solely about repetition and other memory training techniques. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6667 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 27 of 47 28 January 2011 at 8:06am | IP Logged | ||||||||
It seems it is the criteria of the phrasebook or textbook he uses. For example, you can record the whole example sentences in a grammar book. If I understand, this the core method he uses and not the only one. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| hypersport Senior Member United States Joined 5873 days ago 216 posts - 307 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 28 of 47 30 January 2011 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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First of all I think trying to memorize sentences and phrases is a joke. That isn't learning the language, it certainly isn't thinking in the language.
When you get the opportunity to speak with natives, you can't be pulling crap out of your bag that was memorized. All your canned responses will become obvious so fast when you can't think on your feet and adapt to the flow of the conversation. I agree with zerothinking, read novels. The advantages are many and I've already gone over them many times. On another note, I watched part of his video and then clicked on a link where he was trying to speak in Spanish. Freaking train wreck, his spoken Spanish was incredibly bad and many people commented as such. I couldn't even take the whole thing, had to cut it short it was so bad. Speaking with natives in their language isn't about parroting off canned phrases and sentences. It's about engaging with them and their culture, joking with them, being sarcastic, showing emotion, etc. Everything that you do with friends in your native language. I was speaking with a guy from Spain and another guy from California for a couple of hours the other night and we talked about all kinds of stuff, all in Spanish. Would have been a disaster if I would have had to pull sentences and phrases out of my big bag of tricks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6003 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 29 of 47 30 January 2011 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is the problem with all advice from successful learners -- very few people are aware enough of the detail of what they're doing to describe it completely and accurately. The end result is that the advice is very superficial and not much use to anyone. What I like about forums like this one is that when you get a chance to challenge each other properly, you can eke out all the little details until you have a full picture. With YouTube videos, there isn't the same give and take. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5422 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 30 of 47 31 January 2011 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I want to take exception with some of the blanket statements here. I don't know if this so-called 10,000 sentence method really is a method, but I don't think the idea is to just memorize phrases randomly and then spit them out at the appropriate moment. My impression is that these collections of phrases are resources that can to be used intelligently and with great effectiveness. For me (and maybe for me only), the idea behind this approach is use these phrases as examples that are to be not only imitated but also studied to understand how the language works--see the underlying patterns-- and then used as templates to build one's own examples. I look at these examples as sources of inspiration. In fact, I believe this is how most people learn languages, it's just that we don't want to admit it, and it is not often done systematically. When we read a grammar book, we digest the explanations and then look at the examples as illustrations of the "theory". What do we do with the examples? In some manner we imitate them and try to reformulate them "in our own words". Aren't conjugation tables just structured lists of examples that we attempt to memorize and then apply in sentences? My idea of this 10,000 sentence approach is to think of it as a grammar and a vocabulary book without any explanation. The examples would be organized by grammatical or lexical patterns. The examples are not be be parroted. They are illustrations of the pattern. If an example can be used as is, fine. If not, then modify it until it fits the bill. Let me give a real example. For Spanish I use a wall chart product in the form of a large calendar that I have on the wall next to my computer screen. The theme that I'm currently looking at is the subjunctive mood. There are 41 complete sentences that illustrate the present tense subjunctive in Spanish. There are no explanations, just examples. Since the page is in front of me all the time, my eye roams over all the examples every day. Sometimes I choose one or two to work on. I can modify the examples to my liking or needs. The important thing is understanding how the underlying pattern works. The neat thing I like about this tool is that I have 41 real, trustworthy and idiomatic "chunks" to build on. I have found this very useful for developing true fluency. I also have flash cards for these phrases and when I go to Spanish-language meetups, I take a couple with me so that I can deliberately try to use a particular turn of phrase. As a matter of fact, at these meetups I see that most learners are struggling because they are thinking too much about the grammar and the vocabulary. Their speech is often awkward, hesitant and downright inaccurate. You can see the cogs turning in their head as they search for the right form. The people who speak the best tend to be those who have lived in Spanish-speaking countries. That only makes sense. They have spontaneously assimilated the patterns in complete phrases. In a sense they have naturally used the 10,000 sentence method in some form of immersion setting. Just a little note on reading novels. Obviously not a bad idea. I would just add that some thought should be given to what kind of Spanish one is learning and for what purpose. If you want to learn conversational Spanish, I would choose something contemporary with lots of dialogues. Comic books are excellent for this. So are movies and telenovelas. Certainly not Don Quijote or Cien años de soledad. 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6901 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 31 of 47 31 January 2011 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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To hypersport:
Maybe I remember Glossika's Youtube clip wrongly, but I don't think he advocated that we should memorize the sentences (after all, he does 500 of them per day - who could remember that amount?). What this vocal sentence method is about (in my opinion) is to get a feel for the grammar and to exercise your muscle (i.e. your tongue) at the same time by reading the sentences aloud. Twice is better than once, of course. Maybe some of the sentences stick, especially after listening to the recordings, but that's about the same thing as when great musicians improvise. Some patterns re-appear, but the improvisations aren't rehearsed (and neither is "real" speech). 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Thuan Triglot Senior Member GermanyRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6922 days ago 133 posts - 156 votes Speaks: Vietnamese, German*, English Studies: French, Japanese, Romanian, Swedish, Mandarin | Message 32 of 47 31 January 2011 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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From what I remember he mentioned recording several sentences where just a single word is changing (i.e. different fruits) which reminded me of the FSI drills.
I don't expect him to memorize a couple of thousand sentences in a week, but he sure does get to practice speaking much more than most people on this forum (who else is saying out loud 40,000 sentences in two weeks?). 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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