Arguelles’ Six Most Important Languages (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Arguelles’ Six Most Important Languages
Tags: Hit List \| Alexander Arguelles
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44 messages over 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

dmaddock1
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Studies: Italian, Esperanto, Latin, Ancient Greek

Message 41 of 44

28 June 2011 at 3:38pm | IP Logged

Leurre wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by faux-philosophical here, but I am slightly amused that you use 'post-modern' as if to imply that it equates to some sort of triviality.

I don't think 'postmodern' thought is trivial in itself, but I do think such ideas are often shallowly understood and even more shallowly applied. The context was lost when the prior comment was edited, unfortunately.

Leurre wrote:

you can't help but ask yourself if you are educated if you only know
five, if you are not educated if you know six, [...] It seems to me that that is a central concern when talking about what that professor said regarding languages.

Then by all means do so. I was speaking specifically to those who stated only that the word 'educated' has no meaning and/or interpreted the Prof. as making value claims in the 'real' world. Clearly the Prof. did not intend his statements to be taken in the reverse and applied to people now.

Leurre wrote:

I'll add that equating learning the classical language of your culture
is not really the same as reading Shakespeare at all. [...] Also there is all the universal present in Shakespeare, the cross and trans cultural, which makes it elude any one culture and which, it is my understanding, is the reason we still read him today.

That is a good reason too read him, but certainly not the only. I'd propose that it's not even the best reason. I was referring to the fact that he is so widely referenced in English culture that to *not* have read him means you miss out on a lot of allusion, idiom, etc. I could expound on this, but I don't want to get too off-topic.

Leurre wrote:

One could firstly read Shakespeare in another language and get not a false idea of these 'underpinnings of the cultural context in which you are born'.

I didn't claim otherwise.

Leurre wrote:

It seems as though with the idea of one's culture and ancient languages, we need to ask the question of what ones culture is, and how closely that relates to an ancient language. How many English speakers feel the influence of, much less the need to learn old English? Does not knowing Old English impede one's knowledge and access to knowledge of a certain time period, of a history, a literature? It's not so clear that that is the case.

The Shakespeare example was a metaphor; I'm not trying to claim studying Old English is equally important as studying Shakespeare. I don't think it is. You (and other earlier commenters) seem to focus on negative claims no one is making. Ie. not studying X means you are un-educated or is "impeding" knowledge. I'm certainly not claiming this nor is Arguelles (in my opinion). Rather, I think such studies further *enrich* one's knowledge in a way studying everything in translation (either to modern idiom or to a different language altogether) cannot provide. Reading Chaucer in modern English destroys the prosody, for example.

However, requiring a command of the language of composition *is* important for scholars that work with such texts. Arguelles claims that this mastery has been in decline. I'm not qualified to say how correct his is on this point, but I agree with the sentiment. In the one area where I can speak from experience (mastery of biblical languages in professional clergy of the Protestant Christian tradition in America), the emphasis on language skills has absolutely declined and it shows. If one is reading for personal edification then do whatever you like, but if you are a scholar and want your opinion on something to be given special authority by society, then in my opinion, you should know the language of the text you have an opinion on.

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Leurre
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Message 42 of 44

28 June 2011 at 4:14pm | IP Logged

Thanks for the answer, I think I understand a little better now.
1 person has voted this message useful

Lianne
Senior Member
Canada
thetoweringpile.blog
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Studies: Esperanto, Toki Pona, German, French

Message 43 of 44

28 June 2011 at 8:14pm | IP Logged

"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon." -- Chancellor Gorkon

Therefore, I choose Klingon as my language that allows me to appreciate classical literature. :)
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Deerhound
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England
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Speaks: English*, German, Toki Pona
Studies: French, Mandarin, Esperanto, Greek, Latin, Welsh

Message 44 of 44

28 June 2011 at 9:29pm | IP Logged

I like this idea and admire Professor Arguelles for expressing it.

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