LinguaMan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5076 days ago 20 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish
| Message 9 of 17 31 March 2011 at 7:16pm | IP Logged |
Reading is good to reinforce old words and learn new words, but then those words should be used mentally or out loud. In my case this is the method that has taken me to fluency.
Edited by LinguaMan on 31 March 2011 at 7:27pm
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LinguaMan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5076 days ago 20 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish
| Message 10 of 17 31 March 2011 at 7:25pm | IP Logged |
Arekkusu wrote:
If you have a decent dictionary that offers proper examples, it's can be an excellent source of new words, and internal dialogue is a good way to incorporate that vocabulary into your fluent domain, as you create the appropriate context yourself. Your understanding of the exact usage (or pronunciation) of the word will not be perfect, but it can never be after a first encounter. That's why you need to continue to monitor your internal representation of the language, to ensure it matches the language used around you.
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I absolutely agree. I'm not sure why he thinks dictionaries are not good references before reaching an advanced level. I like online dictionaries. Wordreference.com has been one of my main resources for building vocabulary in the last nine years. It gives examples, multiple meanings for words, and a forum for any words or phrases not listed on the site that can be clarified by native speakers.
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s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish
| Message 11 of 17 01 April 2011 at 4:52am | IP Logged |
Something that works for me at a relatively advanced level in Spanish is the learning of set phrases. A lot of serious academic work has been done on memorization and set phrases. Basically, the idea is to study and repeat entire phrases or dialogues in the target language until they just roll off your tongue. Then the next phase is to take those set phrases and adapt them to real situations. The idea is that you come into a situation with something tangible and realistic to say right off the bat. This has worked wonders for me because I find myself spontaneously speaking quite fluently because I can master entire conversations.
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Reginalee Newbie Brazil poesieart.wordpress.Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4982 days ago 5 posts - 6 votes Speaks: Portuguese* Studies: FrenchA2, English
| Message 12 of 17 07 April 2011 at 3:45am | IP Logged |
Hello everyone!
The key for me to achieve fluency is trying not to think in my native language, but in
all situations to pass the time of day I use my complete vocabulary to introduce through
second language: French and after English, so successively. Exactly one word with
reference a idiom, making translation en my mind for four words with differents idioms
being an effort to improve, and if you get a native different: communication ! What's up?
My real problem: don't let the french accent to interfere in English language.
Regards.
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Lambinator Diglot Newbie AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4979 days ago 4 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English*, Thai Studies: Indonesian, Tetum
| Message 13 of 17 09 April 2011 at 4:42pm | IP Logged |
For several months I have been learning a new language. My main study technique is similar to Linguaman's internal dialogue method, except that rather than invent my own dialogues, I use mainly short dialogues from a textbook.
I read the textbook dialogues quietly, imagining the situations in my head, and pretending I am the persons in the dialogue. For particular situations that I am facing in real life e.g. needing to borrow a cigarette lighter to light mosquito coils, I will look up the relevant vocab, formulate a sentence based on a functionally similar sentence from my textbook, and practise the conversation in my head, pretending to myself that I am actually doing it for real. But mainly I just read over and over the many short (two line) dialogues in my book, either silently or quietly, imagining that I am really in the relevant situation.
My opportunities to practise with native speakers are limited, and I almost invariably find my pronunciation and intonation of new words and dialogues I learnt by myself needs correction. However after I have memorized the words and grammar structures myself through internal dialogue, I find it easy to fix my intonation and pronunciation through interaction with native speakers.
Unlike Arekkusu, I find it very difficult to acquire vocabulary through hearing alone. I generally need to see a word written down before I can remember it and start to use it.
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Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh
| Message 14 of 17 09 April 2011 at 5:29pm | IP Logged |
Arekkusu wrote:
You can have a solid understanding of grammar and still NOT be fluent. On the other hand, one could only know a few grammatical structures and use them efficiently, with a certain fluency and ease. While mastery of grammar takes times, fluency doesn't have to wait and can be fostered right from the start. |
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Fluency in what though?
If you don't have accuracy, you can only be fluent in "Bad English/French/whatever". Becoming fluent in an incorrect grammar is an obstacle to becoming fluent in the genuine language.
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Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh
| Message 15 of 17 09 April 2011 at 5:37pm | IP Logged |
Sennin wrote:
Here's the key to fluency and advanced conversational skill: Get rid of the idea you are speaking a foreign language. It is not foreign, it is your language. |
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I'm exactly the opposite. English and Scots are my language. I do not speak Spanish. I do not speak Gaelic. I do not speak French. If I "spoke" them, it would imply that my language was correct. Instead, I am learning them, and I've always got my ears open to hearing my mistakes and hearing other people's good language.
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crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5819 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French
| Message 16 of 17 10 April 2011 at 10:25am | IP Logged |
s_allard wrote:
Something that works for me at a relatively advanced level in Spanish
is the learning of set phrases. A lot of serious academic work has been done on
memorization and set phrases. Basically, the idea is to study and repeat entire phrases
or dialogues in the target language until they just roll off your tongue. Then the next
phase is to take those set phrases and adapt them to real situations. The idea is that
you come into a situation with something tangible and realistic to say right off the
bat. This has worked wonders for me because I find myself spontaneously speaking quite
fluently because I can master entire conversations. |
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I've been using something quite similar to this. I've been using a native Spanish book
(quite a modern one) and I've been listening to it through an audiobook. While I
listen, I highlight interesting grammar points, prepositions, set phrases etc. After
I've finished the chapter I go back through the chapter and repeat the phrases I
highlighted but I adjust the sentence to be about me/something important to me and
imagine that they're part of a response to a question on the Spoken part of the DELE. I
just make a brief sentence, I don't try to have a full conversation but if I can
combine various sentences together then that's great as well.
It's been really good for my speaking. Normally there are some forms/sentences I avoid
when I speak due to my lack of confidence in the area but with a native sentence as a
'base' I can't go wrong.
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