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Why do people lie about being fluent? | ||
Tags: Fake Reviews | Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 65 of 88 29 April 2011 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Just a quick response before work. To answer your question about fluency, perhaps it is akin to someone who claims to “speak” a language, even if he or she only knows a few words or phrases. This is something which I personally would not do (maybe in my elementary school days I might have, but so would have many people), but I still hear it from time to time. I used to have a girlfriend who would act in this manner, claiming to speak some Italian, some German and so forth, yet she only knew a few basic phrases. Interestingly enough, I think she did this not so much to lie or to brag, but because she knew I had an interest in languages and thought I would like to know about what she knew in other languages.
The problem with the whole fluency situation, in my opinion, is that there are so many different definitions of the word. When one can hold conversations about a variety of topics and one does not use a bunch of stock phrases out of a book, I would perhaps say that the person has basic fluency, or that the person is conversational. I feel that language learning occurs in stages and is not an all or nothing situation. To say that someone cannot “speak” a language or that someone does not have some sort of basic fluency, if he or she is not on a C2 level, for instance, would be like telling someone that he or she cannot play guitar just because the person does not know how to solo and only plays chords. Likewise, I view languages in a similar manner. With that said, it is hard to say why the original poster’s acquaintance “lies” about her fluency in Spanish. Maybe it is for show and she is trying to impress someone, maybe she doesn’t realize that she isn’t fluent, it is quite hard to say. One thing for sure though is that I am not quite sure what is to be gained from cutting someone else down, and without knowing the whole inner workings of this woman’s brain, it is hard to say why she “lies” about her skills. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 budonoseito Pro Member United States budobeyondtechnRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5806 days ago 261 posts - 344 votes Studies: French, Japanese Personal Language Map | Message 66 of 88 29 April 2011 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I think it is perspective. And that perspective is always changing. A homeless person
may think I am rich. However, my kids have been teased for living in the poor neighborhood because I don't have a McMansion. Sadly, for the average American, she may seem fluent because she can string together a few sentences. However as language enthusiasts at HTAL, have generally accept the international standard of conversing easily in a wide range of topics as fluent. So, as promoters and teachers of language, we should find ways to encourage people who have take the first steps to bilingualism to continue and in time their definition will change. Edited by budonoseito on 29 April 2011 at 2:07pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5335 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 67 of 88 29 April 2011 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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We are hard to please aren't we...
I have come across this a number of times, both in Spain, with people who claimed to speak English, when they could not get a loaf of bread if they needed to, and in Norway with people who applied for a job in my department, where the requirements were to speak English and French. They did not expect to be tested, but I did all the interviews in English and French. The English was fine but with two exceptions (the two girls) all the others spoke French so badly that I am surprised they had the guts to put it on their CV. I have always wondered what made them overestimate their skills so grossly, but this thread has provided me with a lot of possible answers. I am happy that the OP raised the question, it has proved most useful. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| portunhol Triglot Senior Member United States thelinguistblogger.w Joined 6253 days ago 198 posts - 299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (classical) | Message 68 of 88 30 April 2011 at 1:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This is what I'm talking about! I've had these types of experiences as well. On the one hand, we have to admit that fluency is a relative term with a rather broad definition. I also think that its definition is narrow enough to not be applicable to the way certain people speak. If I said that I was good at Yoruba, wouldn't I be leaving a lot open to interpretation? Absolutely. Would it be misleading to say that I am good at Yoruba and not be able to speak in the past tense correctly? Can I say that I am good at Yoruba and not be able to "buy a loaf of bread?" Can I say that I am good at Yoruba and not be able to respond to simple questions like, "What day is it?" I feel it is a mistake for us to try and narrowly define fluency. I also believe it is a mistake for us to argue that basic, intermediate and advanced are all synonyms. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| kmart Senior Member Australia Joined 6125 days ago 194 posts - 400 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 69 of 88 30 April 2011 at 2:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well, I'd have to disagree, there's a definite obsession coming through from your posts...
And on your blog
Whew! Chill out. Maybe take an anger management class... ;-) 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 70 of 88 30 April 2011 at 6:38am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Although I vowed to no longer participate in this thread, I'm always happy to dialogue with Solfrid Cristin. With reference to job applications and CV's or resumés as we call them in North America, it is only normal that people try to portray themselves in the most favourable light. There is outright lying where people may claim diplomas that they do not have. But there is also stretching the truth, especially when it comes to language qualifications. The problem starts with the manner in which the linguistic requirements are stated. In Canada, one usually sees things like "Bilingualism necessary". Does that mean equal proficiency in both languages? Not really. What that usually means is that during the interview the interviewer will switch languages. Very rarely does one see any kind of definition of the kind of bilingualism or language skills. Universities solved this problem a long time ago by requiring specific test scores on language tests for admittance. You can't lie, overestimate or misrepresent your test score. This is the whole thrust of the CEFR system. Now suppose Solfrid's firm asked for language skills English (C2) and French (C1), things are much clearer. It becomes more difficult to cheat. If the firm required certification of these skills, then it probably would not even have to check for these skills. That is the whole point of a standardized system of language assessment. Everybody agrees on the same standards. The person applying for the job knows the level of skill required and the firm knows what it can require. I'm not saying that all job applicants should run out and get tested, but now we all know what we are talking about. Edited by s_allard on 30 April 2011 at 7:02am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| tracker465 Senior Member United States Joined 5353 days ago 355 posts - 496 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 71 of 88 30 April 2011 at 7:19am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
To go along with the CV situation and why someone might list a language which they barely speak, I can think of a few examples of why one might do that, disregarding any attempts to actually deceive the agent who is doing the hiring. In the United States, for instance, it seems that we are known as being terrible when it comes to learning foreign languages. If someone had taken a couple German classes, for instance, and was able to understand the basics of grammar, I know I would be listing it on my CV when applying for a job at a microbrewery, though I would also clearly state that it was a beginner's level or something. If those with *any* knowledge of German are hard to find in the area, and the brewery constantly purchases hops and other ingredients from Germany, then someone with a slight bit of knowledge might be a better canidate for the job than someone with no knowledge. When applying for an ESL job in the States, if someone didn't speak fluent Spanish but took a few courses, it might be worth mentioning as well. Under this type of circumstance I can see someone adding these skills to a CV, but to overestimate the skills and blatantly lie on the CV would just be stupid. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Haukilahti Triglot Groupie Finland Joined 4965 days ago 94 posts - 126 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Polish | Message 72 of 88 30 April 2011 at 9:23am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Besides, you might project your "imagined future" language abilities into your current CV.
If you are confident enough that you will learn/consolidate/brush up your French in a couple of months if such a job requirement is needed, you might insert "fluent French" into your current CV... almost in good faith! It's not your fault that the job interview comes a couple of months too early ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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