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Method of loci questions | ||
Tags: Memory | Vocabulary learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6610 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 17 of 89 23 July 2011 at 12:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
If you are a Gran Master of Memory, I think this means enough memory training to be able to use it as great shortcut to learn languages: words and sentences. This Gran Master of Memory degree means: -Memorise 1,000 random digits in an hour. -Memorise the order of 10 decks of cards in an hour. -Memorise the order of one deck of cards in under two minutes. My question is: How long does it take to average people to achieve this mnemonic degree? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Josh Cohen Newbie United States mnemotechnics.org/ Joined 4811 days ago 35 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, Esperanto | Message 18 of 89 23 July 2011 at 12:19am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm not a Grandmaster--just an enthusiast who is training. I think a person could reach that level an a year or two with a lot of practice. An ordinary person, with no previous memory ability, could easily memorize hundreds of random digits within a month or two. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6610 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 19 of 89 23 July 2011 at 11:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think the keyword tecnique is useful for difficult words, but I think you are too optimistic. I would like to know if there are real statistics apart from the hype that we can find in the Internet. Anyway I am pretty skeptic about the practical usefulness of this. I think Ben Pridmore is skeptical as well. Maybe I am wrong or it might be very useful depending on the person. I have been reading your website and I see you have this goal. I would like to know about your experience with languages after this Gran Master achievement. Actually there are mnemonic language courses: http://www.beste-tipps-zum-deutsch-lernen.com/ http://www.200words-a-day.com/ http://www.linkwordlanguages.com/ Edited by slucido on 23 July 2011 at 11:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Josh Cohen Newbie United States mnemotechnics.org/ Joined 4811 days ago 35 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, Esperanto | Message 20 of 89 23 July 2011 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Anyone can learn to do "impossible" things with memory. I'm highly optimistic about it, based on my experiences. Just avoid the "snake oil guruism" that any field like memory improvement or language learning attracts. Example: It took me less than 1 hour to learn how to memorize the order of black and red in a deck of 52 playing cards forward-and-backward with no errors. That is the same as 52 random binary digits, looking at each digit only once. That was my first attempt with memory techniques.
I've seen studies about it online, though I can't find the links at the moment. Mnemonic techniques do significantly increase speed of learning vocabulary.
I sent him a message asking him... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5255 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 21 of 89 23 July 2011 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That is indeed a great achievement, but, IMHO, it's of little use for vocabulary learning. I'm sure that you can remember all the cards in the correct order, but you'd probably have to go through all 52 pegs or your memory palace to tell me what the position of a specific card is. And that's the downside of this method. I like the keyword/link word method, but it only works with foreign words that you can easily create link words for. Unfortunately, it's next to useless for languages like Arabic where you have many words that follow a similar pattern and sound very similar. E.g., istiqbāl = reception and istiqlāl = independence. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6610 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 22 of 89 23 July 2011 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Good idea. Ask him if you can send here his answer about using mnemonics to learn languages or academic topics. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Josh Cohen Newbie United States mnemotechnics.org/ Joined 4811 days ago 35 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, Esperanto | Message 23 of 89 23 July 2011 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
A memory palace (method of loci) is different from peg systems. With a memory palace/journey, the information is indexed. If you say, "what is the 42nd number?" I can just divide 42 by the number of items per location (6 in this case), and find the location where that number is stored. So, it can be recited forward, backward, or from any point. You can also do it with peg systems. You can't do it as easily with chained-story methods. It's just an example of how memory techniques can immediately produce significant results.
Creating associations becomes much easier and faster with practice. You can reuse the associations. The more you know, the more you can learn.
You just have to figure out a system. You may need to create a specific image for every letter in the alphabet. In Modern Greek, it is easy to confuse "ντ" (nt, which is pronounced like the English "d") and "δ" (delta, which is pronounced like "th" in "the"). My mnemonic image for "d" in English is a shark. My mnemonic image for delta is a triangle (instrument). You can attach the letter images to your image to remind you of the spelling. For example, to memorize "οδηγώ" ("odhigo", which has a "th" and not a "d" sound), I could take my image of Odie the dog driving a car and add a triangle. His car could be a giant triangle with wheels. A triangle can only mean the letter delta, so there is no ambiguity. That mnemonic image encodes the following information:
In Arabic, you would probably need a specific image for every letter. EDIT: "istiqbāl = reception and istiqlāl" -- you could think of it as i-stiq-bal and i-stiq-lal. "Istiq" is "I stick" -- either hitting someone with a stick or pasting sticky notes on them. Your image of the receptionist could be your pasting sticky notes on a ball balanced on his/her head. "I stick ball." For "istiqlal", "lal" could be "LOL" -- maybe an LOL cat covered in sticky notes celebrating independence day by riding some fireworks into the sky. Sorry for the rushed response -- I have to run and catch a bus. Edited by Josh Cohen on 23 July 2011 at 2:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5255 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 24 of 89 23 July 2011 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Actually, I'm quite familiar with the difference between the two systems.
If you associate items with an index, no matter what system you use, you can easily say for example that the 31st card is the heart of spades, however, if I asked you to name the index number for the jack of diamonds, you'd have to run through all memorized cards, until you find it, don't you? IMHO, that's akin to memorize only L2-to-L1 translations. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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