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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes  Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 1 of 52 31 July 2011 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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New language, new log.
Previous logs: I traditionally do my big updates on August/February 18, because that's the anniversary of when I started this whole adventure. But the time seems ripe to jump ahead and do one now. STATS If languages are like a shower then I've managed to soak under it for a relatively substantial 2200 hours over 2 years. Italian: 1715h Dutch: 455h French: 44h Yes yes, French is not supposed to be on that list, that's why this log is starting a little too late even though it's ahead of time. SELF ASSESSMENT Italian Fluent modulo speech where I still lack confidence and practice. I find myself now on the long road from fluency to nativity, although very far from the destination. I've passed some notable tests on the way, starting with Umberto Eco to "I promessi sposi" to Machiavelli, all of whom pose few problems at this point. The only test I haven't yet passed is Dante and I plan to tackle him before the year is out. Since Italian is and probably always will be a passive language for me, I am needless to say thrilled beyond my wildest dreams to be where I am now. I can't believe it's all happened in just 2 years and I can't even quite believe that that's possible. I think I am approaching the point where I've gotten as much out of Italian as I want to. Probably within a year I won't consider it a language of study anymore, merely a language I have at my disposal. And if I ever were to move to Italy or have to start using the language actively I'm quite sure I would adapt quickly. Dutch Passive skills approaching fluency and listening has improved dramatically over the last 6 months. I'm now reading philosophy, so I've reached the level of difficulty at which I need to be passively and I just have to keep working at this level for a while. On the other hand, my active skills are weak and I especially lack conversational language. I will be trying to cure this by focusing on uitzendinggemist for the rest of the year. Dutch remains a difficult language of study, because I've never been particularly excited about it and I struggle with motivation periodically. It has received a boost recently as I've improved my reading materials and hopefully I can get more active use happening in the near future. Overall, progress in Dutch has been "slow but demonstrable". THE ROAD AHEAD Italian Complete my 20th century literature project (about 10 books left). That should take until 2012, or a year at most. Thereupon I want to do some more reading from earlier periods, but not on as large a scale. At this time next year I will probably be winding down my Italian activity. Dutch My ideas are not that clear. More of the same I guess, for now. If I can maintain the current pace I should get enough reading done by the end of the year that I'll have passive fluency. I think I want to stay within philosophy for now because that's both challenging and stimulating. I made a mistake in my early Dutch reading because I wasn't picky enough and my motivation suffered. French The long awaited! It started very spontaneously. I was in Paris, I chanced upon a big bookstore and bought a book. I thought I could read it. So the challenge is now to see how far I can get just by working passively. Later on I will probably cover Assimil and other study materials anyway, but I want to get an idea of how much instruction I'll really be needing. Just picking up the first book and starting to read is obviously tough, but it's a lot easier than my first reading in Italian and Dutch was. It turns out that all the time I spent studying Italian I was actually studying French and Spanish too! French syntax is incredibly similar and most of the verb tenses are discoverable with few dictionary lookups. Needless to say, having some solid clues is very far from knowing the subject matter, but the discovery process is great fun. I don't really have any goals in French yet, it's enough for now that I enjoy it and that I'm learning a lot. So that was that, apparently we're up to three languages now, in parallel. When people say that kinda stuff you think it's science fiction and then you end up doing it yourself. I can't believe that 2 years ago I had no idea how to do any of this, this forum can really change your life! So what's next on the horizon? Strangely enough, all the languages that I wanted to learn I'm already studying. So there's actually nothing more on the todo list. Next year I will probably want to do a 6 week challenge or something like that in Spanish. Maybe just get the Assimil and go through it. But I don't think it's gonna be a big language for me. Other than that I really don't know, something else might come up. I've thought about Mandarin in the past, but it's more of a curiosity than a real desire for me. Edited by numerodix on 31 July 2011 at 2:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Oasis88 Senior Member Australia Joined 5707 days ago 160 posts - 187 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Italian | Message 2 of 52 02 August 2011 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm excited to see another one of your logs!
All the best for your French studies. I have to admit that it has been on my hit list for the last 8 months or so. As usual I'll let you tread the path of French learning and follow soon after. Any plans on completing an accredited Italian diploma like the CELI? I imagine C1 or C2 shouldn't be too difficult with over 1500 hours under your belt. I was thinking about looking into this after completing my 1000 hours. Edited by Oasis88 on 02 August 2011 at 1:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 3 of 52 02 August 2011 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sweet, I'll hold the door open for you.
You know I've thought about this earlier. As a kind of reward even. But I'm not a big fan of formal language teaching, I don't particularly like the experience of language classes and I also don't really like the way language testing is done. I think it's quite artificial and flawed, even though I can't claim that I know how to improve it. If anything, I think those language tests make you obsess needlessly and doubt your skills because you can't score 100% on their tests, meanwhile confidence is one of the most important things in language ability. So it undermines your ability to use the language as well as you can. Of course those are my experience with language testing in English, but I'm pretty sure it's much the same elsewhere in Europe. Beyond that, I just don't need a certificate at this point to tell me that I know a bunch of Italian, I don't need that external confirmation. So why spend 150 euro (or whatever) on it frankly when I don't need the paper for anything? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5568 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 4 of 52 03 August 2011 at 5:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Looking forward to following this new log of yours also. Good luck with your French and Dutch and amazing work
with the Italian! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 5 of 52 05 August 2011 at 10:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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As I now try to work out some of the grammar I keep having these moments of slight
anxiety. When I learn something about French which seems a little different from Italian I keep trying to recall what the same thing is in Italian. Sometimes I can't remember and that makes me nervous. I really ought to stop doing this. This on-the-spot recall of another language is a measure of how sharp the other language currently is, but it is no measure of fluency in general. It's just that when I get into French I have to let go of Italian a bit and let French occupy some of the privileged positions in my brain. The Italian is still there but it's not so readily displayed in the shop window anymore, it's in the back now. Which is perfectly fine. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Oasis88 Senior Member Australia Joined 5707 days ago 160 posts - 187 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Italian | Message 6 of 52 05 August 2011 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I was thinking more of the examinations which give you a level. I.e. C1 or C2, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 7 of 52 05 August 2011 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Same thing, no?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Oasis88 Senior Member Australia Joined 5707 days ago 160 posts - 187 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Italian | Message 8 of 52 06 August 2011 at 12:22am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Yes. You're right.I re-read your post and you did emphasise your thoughts about the
exams. You mentioned classes at the beginning and I thought you had the wrong idea. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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