|
 |
Introverts, extroverts, and languages | ||
Tags: Introvert and Extrovert | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| janalisa Triglot Senior Member France janafadness.com/blog Joined 6895 days ago 284 posts - 466 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Japanese Studies: Russian, Norwegian | Message 1 of 25 14 September 2011 at 9:08am | IP Logged | ||
|
Forgive the length of this post, but it’s something I’ve been thinking about for some time now and I think it’s quite important. I’m posting it here because I think a discussion would be valuable, and I’d really appreciate everyone’s opinions on the topic.
First of all I'd like to share this video by Anthony, who is also a member of this forum (I believe under the name of "Splog"?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BryO-faf32g In the video, Anthony suggests that many of the language learning methods out there (which suggest doing things like going out and talking to lots of people) are aimed at extroverts, but that introverts might need different ways of developing active language skills. Introverts are not necessarily shy or afraid of social situations-- they just need to spend more time to themselves because social situations tend to drain them of their energy. Anyway, please watch the video for that bit, because Anthony's explanation is very good. Did you watch it? Good. Now what I want to discuss here is a theory I have: I think a lot of introverts tend to spend a lot of time on the Internet. (Nothing wrong with that-- I myself am an introvert who spends a lot of time on the Internet.) Extroverts, on the other hand, tend to spend more time hanging out with people in "real life". So I suspect that a large percentage of people in the online language learning community are introverts. This is disproportional to the real world, in which the majority of people (around 75% according to the book "The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an Extrovert World" by Marti Olsen) are actually extroverts. So maybe the playing field is a bit more even online, or even tipped slightly in the favor of introverts. This is where I think a large part of the "input vs. output" debate in the online language learning community comes from. I think the people in favor of more input are mostly introverts, while the people in favor of more output are mostly extroverts. Of course it's not all black and white, but I think the few more extroverted people (or more charismatic introverts? I don't know) actively promoting the input-oriented methods through blogs, Youtube, etc. get a lot of backup from more passive introverts nodding their heads in agreement. Whereas the few extroverted people who spend enough time online to promote extrovert-friendly (i.e. output-oriented) language learning methods get a lot of criticism from those same passive introverts. And my suggestion to you is that this is all ridiculous. People have obviously succeeded in learning languages with both "input-heavy" and "output-heavy" methods. Which type of method is best for you simply depends on your personality, so it's impossible to say that one or the other is the best for everyone. A lot of introverts don't spend much time talking even in their native language, so why should they have to talk all the time in their target language? Introverts are naturally better at absorbing detailed information passively. According to "The Introvert Advantage" (the same book mentioned above), there is actually strong scientific evidence of this. I’d like to share a few short passages from the book: “The researcher discovered two findings that replicated what less sophisticated experiments had already suggested. First, introverts had more blood flow to their brains than extroverts. More blood flow indicates more internal stimulation. Anytime blood flows to an area of your body, like when you cut your finger, that area becomes more sensitive. Second, the introverts’ and extroverts’ blood traveled along different pathways. Dr. Johnson found the introverts’ pathway is more complicated and focused internally. The introverts’ blood flowed to the parts of the brain involved with internal experiences like remembering, solving problems, and planning. This pathway is long and complex. The introverts were attending to their internal thoughts and feelings.” So introverts are very sensitive to external stimulation, and they don’t need much of it because there’s a lot going on in their brains already. Extroverts, on the other hand, can't get enough stimulation. Their brains have shorter pathways and process things very quickly. They like to be around lots of different people and lots of different things. They're good at thinking on their feet and speaking spontaneously. As the book says: “Dr. Johnson tracked the fast-acting brain pathway of extroverts, showing how they process input that influences their activity and motivation. The extroverts’ blood flowed to the areas of the brain where visual, auditory, touch, and taste (excluding smell) sensory processing occurs. Their main pathway is short and less complicated. The extroverts attended externally to what was happening in the lab. They were soaking in sensory input.” “Since extroverts have a low sensitivity to dopamine and yet require large amounts of it, how do they get enough? Parts of the brain release some dopamine. But extroverts need its sidekick, adrenaline, which is released from the action of the sympathetic nervous system, to make more dopamine in the brain. So the more active the extrovert is, the more Hap Hits are fired and dopamine is increased. Extroverts feel good when they have places to go and people to see.” “Introverts, on the other hand, are highly sensitive to dopamine. Too much dopamine and they feel overstimulated. Introverts use an entirely different neurotransmitter, acetylcholine, on their more dominant pathway. In Wet Mind, Stephen Kosslyn and Oliver Koenig site the brain pathway for acetylcholine, and guess what? It is the same pathway Dr. Johnson imaged for introverts. Acetylcholine is another important neurotransmitter connected to many vital functions in the brain and body. It affects attention and learning (especially perceptual learning), influences the ability to sustain a calm, alert feeling and to utilize long-term memory, and activates voluntary movement. It stimulates a good feeling when thinking and feeling.” Note that acetylcholine especially effects perceptual learning. Introverts are good at perceiving things passively and storing them in their long-term memory. And the like to do this-- it makes them feel good! So naturally introverts will be more attracted to passive learning methods, and will probably be successful with them. Extroverts feel better when they’re being active, and they learn by doing. They’re better at using their short-term memories, so they can think on their feet. The idea of talking to lots of different people is thrilling to them, so naturally they’re attracted to more active learning methods and will probably be successful with them. So, what can introverts do to develop their active skills in a language? As part of my answer to that question, here’s yet another quote from the book: “Often introverts have trouble finding the word they want when they are speaking out loud. Our brains use many different areas for speaking, reading, and writing; therefore, information needs to flow freely between the separate areas. Word retrieval may be a problem for introverts because the information moves slowly. One cause of this is that we use long-term memory, so it takes longer and requires the right association (something that reminds us of the word) to reach back into our long-term memory to locate the exact word we want. If we are anxious, it may be even more difficult to find and articulate a word. Written words use different pathways in the brain, which seems to flow fluently for many introverts.” And this is describing the situation in one’s native language! I wonder if by “develop active skills” we really mean “become more extroverted”? Personally my ultimate aim is to be able to use my target language with the same ease I use my native language. I sometimes have trouble finding the right word even in my native language, so why should I expect to do better in a foreign language? I think we can develop our active skills by doing the same kinds of things we do actively in our native language. For me, those things include mostly thinking to myself, writing, and singing out loud when no one else is around. Oh yeah, and sometimes I talk to people. I’m not trying to be a different person in my target language, so why should I suddenly start talking to people all the time? But I have absolutely nothing against output-oriented methods. Actually I think they’re wonderful, for extroverts. So I wish introverts would stop criticizing them unnecessarily, and instead applaud them for their admirable success in language learning. I also think introverts and extroverts could both learn a few things from each other in the realm of language learning (not to mention life in general). We all need to be able to talk spontaneously with people to some extent, and we also need to passively absorb information and store it in our long-term memory. So while the method we use may be (and probably should be) tipped one way or the other, I think we need to incorporate a healthy amount from the other side as well. This is why I like to read about all different kinds of methods and challenge myself by trying them out. What do you think? Does what I wrote here make sense? Would you consider yourself more introverted or extroverted, and how does this effect the way you learn languages? 18 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5771 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 2 of 25 14 September 2011 at 10:48am | IP Logged | ||
|
tl;dr (will do later when I have the time)
Introverts and Extroverts - Splog's own thread about the same video and the ensuing discussion, which I think may be relevant. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| janalisa Triglot Senior Member France janafadness.com/blog Joined 6895 days ago 284 posts - 466 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese Studies: Russian, Norwegian | Message 3 of 25 14 September 2011 at 10:50am | IP Logged | ||
|
Ah, I hadn't seen that thread! Thank you.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Silenz Newbie AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4919 days ago 23 posts - 33 votes Studies: French, German, Russian | Message 4 of 25 14 September 2011 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Introvert, extrovert, doesn't matter. (Hopefully some Aussies will understand this
reference.) I vaguely recall reading something a while back about extroverts being happier. For the last couple of days, I've happier than in weeks. I could attribute this to a number of things, but it does seem that I've been more motivated, and retained information - including language lessons - slightly better since trying to be more extroverted. Additionaly, it's hard to put any person in either of these groups all the time. It can quite easily swap quite regularly, depending on mood, and various other factors. Personally, I think being extroverted basically boils down to stress and anxiety levels in various situations - social being the most relevant. Of course having these levels lowered improves learning and retention abilities. That lack of self doubt that extroverts seem to possess most likely allows for better focus towards the task at hand, as there are less distractions. Having easier and more regular access to a certain thought, of course, allows the brain to remember a particular pathway, far easier than it otherwise would, purely due to the ease of regular use. For this reason I think that extroversion is useful for all kinds of learning, not just language. I find that personally, it does help, and feel that perhaps more people should invest time in working on being extroverted to a degree. Hopefully I didn't trail off too much, and that is a legitimate response to your questions. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| janalisa Triglot Senior Member France janafadness.com/blog Joined 6895 days ago 284 posts - 466 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese Studies: Russian, Norwegian | Message 5 of 25 14 September 2011 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | ||
|
In response to Silenz:
The studies claiming that extroverts are happier are mentioned in the book I quoted as well. According to the book, researchers obtained their results for these studies by asking questions like "Do you enjoy being around people?", "Do you have lots of friends?", etc. So basically, such studies are very extrovert-biased (which is not surprising if they were conducted in the United States, which has a very extrovert-biased culture). Introverts evaluate their happiness in a different way (like whether they feel at peace with themselves, whether they spend lots of time doing things they enjoy, etc.). I for one am an introvert, and I'm also a very happy person. Confidence is in no way related to extroversion, either. I am an introvert who is not only very happy, but also very confident. Introverts and extroverts are both just as likely to be shy (and in fact, since the majority of people are extroverts, most shy people are extroverted). I disagree with your idea that extroverts learn better (or that extroverts are somehow better in any way). I think both types can learn equally as well, but in different ways. I think I explained in my original post why I think introverts have certain advantages when it comes to learning (though extroverts also have their advantages, and neither one is better than the other.) I *do* think that introverts should try to be more extroverted once in a while, but I also think extroverts should try to be more introverted once in a while! I do agree, though, that people can be more introverted or more extroverted than usual depending on their mood, the situation, etc. It's important to understand that introversion/extroversion is a continuum, and everyone falls somewhere along it. So no one is really 100% introverted or 100% extroverted. Both sides of the continuum have their advantages, and it is good to be able to move more towards the other side once in a while. Edited by janalisa on 14 September 2011 at 1:42pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5386 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 6 of 25 14 September 2011 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm guilty of more than my own share of generalization, but things are rarely as simple as we'd like. If we relied on the claim above, we would have to conclude that if anyone is good at instant word retrieval, they'd have to be an extrovert, but is that really so? The other day, I was reading a Twitter thread where interpreters were discussing various questions, including personality traits. If any profession would require one to be particularly adept at recovering just the right word on the spot, it would have to be interpretation -- except that half of the participants, if not more, claimed to be introverts. This means that a higher proportion of introverts access the profession. Could it be because they are likely only marginally introverted? Maybe. Could it be because they trained to acquire that skill? Possibly. I've read interpretation teachers say that interpretation is a skill that can indeed be taught. Is so, is it possible that introvert language learners could also potentially learn to become proficient at output-based activities? I have no problem accepting that certain skills can be easier or harder depending on your personality, or that you may have more or less affinity to certain activities for the same reason, however that shouldn't be construed as an indication that those activities are more efficient simply they are easier for you. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6708 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 25 14 September 2011 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | ||
One of the things I simply hated during my school time was the attempts to force me to be active by forcing me to participate in silly dialogues, games, books I didn't care about and similar things. But active skills also includes thinking, writing and speaking without necessarily having some other person around. I do speak other languages when I travel (or meet foreigners at home), but then there normally is a reason for speaking to those people. Speaking to people just because they are there (or actively seeking them out without any other reason than your own deeply felt wish to babble) is a game that is typical for extraverts, and maybe an introvert could get more training in active skills by following the example of the extraverts, but at the price of doing something that feels almost like an assault. On the other hand an introvert person probably has more study time and is less prone to sudden urges to get out and have a ball somewhere. The suggestions in Janalisa's message about differences in brain chemistry and functioning between introverts and extraverts are intriguing, but need corroboration from more sources. Edited by Iversen on 14 September 2011 at 4:27pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5852 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 25 14 September 2011 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | ||
|
According to the personality test in this forum I am a well-balanced mixture of 50 % extrovert and 50 % introvert. I didn't know this before I did the test, but I estimated myself more extrovert then introvert.
Generally speaking I enjoy all kind of communication especially with interesting people who share some common interests with me or have otherwise meaningful things to say. If such communication happens by using foreign languages this is certainly a highlight which I very much enjoy. Also I enjoyed speaking to all kinds of different customer types in my foreign language Dutch professionally. I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting in a "Stammtisch" in a pub with any random group (without sharing any common interests) just to babble something there for several hours and I would even dislike the alcohol and smoking consumption of other people in combination with this. But I like sitting in a café with my close friends drinking a milk coffee or an "Apfelschorle" and practise some English (as a foreign language) and discuss all kinds of private matters or common hobbies. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 14 September 2011 at 4:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
