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What to expect from a language course | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5335 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 1 of 24 26 September 2011 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am often a bit surprised about people bashing a language course because they have not learned an entire language from it. In my opinion there can exist no language course which will teach you a full language. Can you imagine the size it would have, or the cost? I know there are courses who claim to teach you a language, but we all know that is rubbish.
I am doing Talk more Turkish right now, and of course I know that it will not teach me Turkish, but if it can teach me the first 100-200 words, I will have got my money's worth. It is fun, it can give you a 1000 repetitions of each word if you need it, and it gives you a sense of acomplishment. I have not tried Rosetta Stone, but I would imagine that although they have more vocabulary, all it can do is also to teach you the very basics. Some courses like Assimil or Linguaphone may take you to an intermediate level, but as far as I am concerned, that is the most you can expect. So what about the rest of you? What do you expect from a languages course, and what do you think it is reasonable to expect from a language course? Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 03 October 2011 at 4:04pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6784 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 2 of 24 26 September 2011 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think it's probably more important to teach a small part of a language well and with
a persuasive method that makes you feel like you're getting it and you're involved than to try and teach as much as possible. It seems fairly logical to me that the reason many courses make such big claims is to justify how expensive they are. "Okay, it's a lot of cash, but we teach you the whole thing." That gives the very misleading impression that the cost a course is the size of the investment you have to decide on. It's also cynical, because they know very well what a high percentage of people never even get halfway into the course, never mind finishing it and realizing how false the advertising is. This also plays into the binary logic that many people who don't study languages have, namely you know it or you don't. So it makes complete sense that a course claims to teach "it" to you. Edited by numerodix on 26 September 2011 at 8:11pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Droenix Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4810 days ago 8 posts - 10 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Japanese | Message 3 of 24 27 September 2011 at 3:23am | IP Logged | ||
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I personally think some language courses are worth a lot more than others. Sometimes the better language courses end up being cheaper than the expensive ones. Rosetta Stone is good for what it is, but for its price, it's completely horrid. You could have spent so much less on a great language course, giving you more cash to spend on other things if need be.
I am currently in the process of going through Genki for Japanese and I learn German in school, so I don't have much experience with Linguaphone, Michel Thomas, Assimil, Pimsleur, etc. The only problem with "full" language courses, is just that. They aren't "complete" and they can't teach you every single word in the language and you can't expect to be fluent either coming out of it. Sure, you may be close to fluent, but it won't teach you every aspect. It's all about advertising and about false claims just to catch your attention. Since I'm relatively new to language learning, I'm by far no expert at what series to look out for and what would prove to be the most useful. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5263 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 4 of 24 27 September 2011 at 4:19am | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with Solfrid. No one course will get you to the promised land. I think a lot of people here make the mistake of believing the hype and are disappointed by their expectations of what a course will do.
Just like when you learn how to drive- you learn the basics and you will learn more as you drive more. You wouldn't be able to go out and drive across Europe or North America after just passing your driver's license exam. The more you drive, the more you learn beyond the basics. You learn how to drive in rain, sleet and snow (unless, like me, you live in the Caribbean- sleet, snow, what's sleet, snow?). You learn how to drive in all traffic situations, heavy, very heavy and extremely heavy (What's traffic?). Curves and hills don't exist in a lot of the American midwest- those drivers will sooner or later be confronted with them and must learn how to deal. Maybe you don't know how to drive on the left or with a manual transmission. Maybe, like me you'd never heard of a roundabout. I met them in England and it took me a while to master them even though I had been driving for years. I'll never forget my first drive from London to Leeds. I learned to drive in a town of 6,000 people with two stoplights, no roundabouts, automatic transmission and driving on the right in very light traffic. My point with this is that your driving course doesn't teach you everything you need to know about driving. It just teaches you enough to be able to get out on the road and there you will learn more about what you need to know- whilst driving. Some people expect a language course to teach you everything to be fluent when what you've learned is there to help you to get out on that scary highway and start driving the language. You learn more as you go further down the road, facing new situations around every curve with other cars driving alongside you who may be much better/worse drivers. At some point you have to quit "studying" and "drive", use/speak, the language- even though you aren't perfect or fluent and you're making mistakes. Your mistakes/accidents will help you to learn as you drive the language on down the road. The most important phrase I learned in Spanish was "¿Cómo se dice esto en español?" (How do I say this in Spanish?) I would use that phrase, along with circumlocutions to describe the word I was seeking, and get that word and it would be mine. The more I did that, the more I learned. I traveled, I read, I watched movies/TV, I listened, and most importantly, I spoke Spanish. That's how I got there after two years of high school Spanish (non-native teacher, not much use), Charles Berlitz' "Spanish Step by Step" and "Breaking Out of Beginner's Spanish" by Joseph J. Keenan. Those books/courses didn't get me to my level of Spanish- speaking and using Spanish got me there and those books/courses helped me to know how to learn. You will reach your destination but you have to "drive" to get there. Edited by iguanamon on 27 September 2011 at 4:30am 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Li Fei Pro Member United States Joined 5124 days ago 147 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 24 27 September 2011 at 4:27am | IP Logged | ||
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Excellent point, Solfrid. I would argue that the exact same thing is true of language courses you take in
person. This forum has a bias against classroom learning, which is totally understandable given that we're all here to learn languages on our own. But classes have their place and can teach you some stuff. It's just that one can't learn a whole language by taking a high school or college course, any more than one can learn an entire language from Pimsleur or Rosetta Stone. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 6 of 24 27 September 2011 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think anybody expects a self-study language or even a class to teach an "entire" language. As others have already said, we expect to get the basics and to be pointed in the right direction. Classes are different in the sense that there are usually different levels and the interaction with the teacher makes it easier to personalize the content to some extent.
Something that I think has not been mentioned is the importance of learning how to learn. This is where I think most self-study packages do a poor job. What happens after you have finished the package?--something that most people never do, by the way. I may be wrong but I haven't seen much in the way of material that explicitly gives guidelines and strategies to help the users go to the next level. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5263 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 7 of 24 27 September 2011 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | ||
Absolutely, s_allard! We end up answering that question a lot here: "What do I do after Assimil?" and "How do I go beyond intermediate?". Some people get the response of "Do Assimil again"! Well, I guess that's where it gets scary and difficult for some folks because there's nobody there to guide them along their journey. They get frustrated and quit because the progress is slower and there's no set outline for learning. You have to know "how to learn". The progress is slower but that slow progress is crucial to moving that language from the "studies" column to the "speaks" column. It takes time and effort. Your work has just begun after you complete your course. As an aside, perhaps we should consider an faq page here to answer those questions. Edited by iguanamon on 27 September 2011 at 2:29pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6660 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 8 of 24 27 September 2011 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've been a native speaker of English for decades and I still don't know the "entire" language. There is so much in the way of technical language, archaic terms and slang. I'm sure there's more to it that I haven't mentioned.
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