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Lingua latina per se illustrata - Greek? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5407 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes  Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 1 of 18 05 October 2011 at 10:19am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm learning Latin with the help of the book called "Lingua latina per se illustrata" by
Hans H. Ørberg. I'm really enjoying it and making great progress. There's no English in the book, it's all in Latin. But my question is for those who are already familiar with this book (well, two books, I and II), and that is whether something similar exists for Ancient Greek (or even Sanskrit)? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jean-luc Senior Member France Joined 4964 days ago 100 posts - 150 votes Speaks: French* Studies: German | Message 2 of 18 05 October 2011 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | ||
Looking for information about this method yesterday, I stumbled on a similar method for greek : http://www.amazon.fr/Polis-Parler-ancien-langue-vivante/dp/2 204087572/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317810658&sr=8-1-fkm r0 The link is in french but there is 2 big English comments. However beware that a (french) comment complain that the language is koinè greek (I don't know what that mean). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6663 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 3 of 18 05 October 2011 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | ||
Sadly, there’s nothing that’s exactly similar, though, a fan if LL remade Athenaze when he translated it into Italian, thus making it to something that looks and feels very much like LL, though with some Italian glossaries and explanations here and there. If you want massive input, there’s always the Reading Greek by JACT, the original Athenaze (if you don’t feel comfortable with Italian — though a lot of people have said that it’s okay even if you don’t speak Italian), A greek boy at home (Public domain). Koiné is the greek spoken later than the classical one(s) and is the one used in the bible and the one copied and imitated by the Byzantian scribes. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5407 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 4 of 18 05 October 2011 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wouldn't mind Koine or Medieval Greek. I am quite fond of ("Byzantine") Roman Greek and
would like to read some of the texts written in that period, like the De Administrando Imperio and the Alexiad. I unfortunately don't know either Italian or French, nor am I interested in learning them for the sole purpose of learning Greek. I'll just do with whatever resources I can find, and I have plenty, I just wanted something more like LLPSI. Thanks so far. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6663 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 5 of 18 05 October 2011 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | ||
Then I’d suggest you to look for ‹A greek boy at home› on the Internet. It’s PD and has a ‹Grammar–translation› kind of book accompanying it. That one is PD too. There’s also something called ‹Living Koiné› by the same Christian fanatics that have down ‹Living biblical hebrew› that is a very cool intuitive course where they teach speaking along with the language. They do on site courses in Jerusalem but they also sell their material to people who want to study themselves, check them out: http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jean-luc Senior Member France Joined 4964 days ago 100 posts - 150 votes Speaks: French* Studies: German | Message 6 of 18 05 October 2011 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hmm as far as I understood, Polis works similarly to the lingua latina method, that's why I mentioned it.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sipes23 Diglot Senior Member United States pluteopleno.com/wprs Joined 4874 days ago 134 posts - 235 votes Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: Spanish, Ancient Greek, Persian | Message 7 of 18 05 October 2011 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | ||
It isn't, but Polis is quite good. It can be a bit of a stumbling block that it is designed for classroom settings, but in any case it is a superior book and was of much use to me. It is so much better than so much of what's available. The French language part of it is no major deal. Almost non-existent is more like it. Provided you never turn to the back of the book. For English speakers, JACT's Reading Greek is outstanding. Athenaze is also very good. Paula Safire's Ancient Greek Alive is also not shabby on the connected reading front, though I've got other gripes with it. A Hellenist I had the LLPSI for Greek discussion about said, "It can't be done. Ancient Greek is too hard." Whatever. Someone is going to do it sooner or later. I've sat down with my copy of LLPSI to see what Ørberg did, and it is truly astounding. He introduces vocabulary at a pretty slow rate for the first several chapters (he doesn't count names to the vocabulary count). He's also pretty careful about grading the grammar as well—but it isn't super strict. He uses prepositions in the first chapter with zero explanation. A fairly full introduction of the genitive case also shows up in chapter 2. Possessive is the main thrust of it, but partitive genitive also shows up too. It almost feels like he knows it and is doing it on purpose. There are a few blocks in front of anyone wanting to do a LLPSI for Greek that will present themselves almost immediately: 0. Alphabet and pronunciation 1. Dialect 2. Article (and sequence in general) 3. Contracts 0. But I suspect you can do it the way Ørberg does: ignore it altogether. Too many ways to do this wrong and alienate large portions of a potential audience before page 2. 1. You've got to pick one dialect, and there will be people who think you picked the wrong one no matter what. My gut tells me Ionian, because of #3. But I doubt many folks would agree. In any case, I suspect I'd rank the dialects Ionian, Attic, Epic, Koine, anything else in terms of usefulness order. I'm not seeing a big seminary market for this sort of a book, if current NT Greek texts are any guide. 2. The article needs to be taught explicitly. And fairly early. Particularly if you're intending an international audience whose first language doesn't necessarily use an article (or uses it differently). If you do the article in an early chapter you've got a decision: do you double down on grammar for one chapter? OR do you put off explaining singular/plural? OR do you figure out a sequence totally different from Ørberg? (The last option seems like a bad idea. The longer I use LLPSI, the better I like his sequence. At first I questioned teaching genitive so early, but I'm starting to see the light.) Anyway, you'd need a pretty solid sequence that reflects the reality of Greek and *not* just cribbing off of Ørberg. 3. You'll have to teach contracts organically, and I've not seen any good way at it. Most of the Greek stuff I've seen pretends that Greek doesn't have a conjugation system like Latin. It has contracts. This is why I like Ionian— no contracts on the endings. You can put off dealing with the contract system until you get to the augment in either the imperfect or aorist tense, by which time students should have a strong feel for things. Then when you switch to Attic Greek, you can put notes in the margin showing how the contract works. Presto presto! Yeah, I've put real thought into this. I've written up about 1/3 of a chapter (wherin I introduce present tense and accusative case), but not put any polish into it. I'd actually do this for Greek if a few other things about my life weren't true (and not because I'm an expert in Greek. I think it needs to be done bad enough that I'd get expert. Well, and get input from folks I know.) But right now the kids are tiny, I'm working part-time and starting back to school part-time. Maybe I can do a few chapters of a Greek Ørberg as my thesis. I can haz thesis? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6663 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 8 of 18 06 October 2011 at 12:10am | IP Logged | ||
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Sipes23: Care to show us your work in progress, even though you’ve not come further than a third of a chapter?
1 person has voted this message useful |
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