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Lingua latina per se illustrata - Greek? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| sipes23 Diglot Senior Member United States pluteopleno.com/wprs Joined 4871 days ago 134 posts - 235 votes  Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: Spanish, Ancient Greek, Persian | Message 9 of 18 06 October 2011 at 2:09am | IP Logged | ||
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No pictures. No explanation in the margin. Really a weak start, but there it is. I've not done much more than
transcribe my first stab. I've not edited it at all. I probably need to do some better work around vocabulary choice, but again this is barely more than a rough draft after some thinking about the subject (and I've done more thinking about it since). I seem to recall that the word count here is about the same as the scaena prima of chapter 3 in LLPSI. σκηνή πρῶτη πρόσωπα: Καλλίδημος, Γλαύκα, ψύλλα ὁ Καλλίδημος ῥέγκει. ὁ γὰρ Καλλίδημος καθεύδει. ἡ Γλαύκα καθεύδει. ἡ δὲ ψύλλα οὐ καθεύδει. ἡ ψύλλα τὸν Καλλίδημος δάκνει. ὁ Καλλίδημος βοᾷ· “οἴμοι!” ἡ δὲ Γλαύκα καθεύδει καὶ ῥέγκει. ἡ γὰρ Γλαύκα οὐκ ἀκούει τὸν Καλλίδημον. ὁ μὲν Καλλίδημος καθίζει, οὐ δὲ ἐπανατέλλει. αὖθις ἡ ψύλλα δάκνει τὸν Καλλίδημον. αὖθις ὁ Καλλίδημος βοᾷ· “οἱμοι!” νῦν ἐπανατέλλει. οὐ μὲν καθεύδει, οὐ δὲ καθίζει. καὶ αὖθις βοᾷ ὁ Καλλίδημος· “οἰμοι. Γλαύκα!” νῦν ἡ Γλαύκα τὸν Καλλίδημον ἀκούει. τὸ γὰρ ὄνομα τὸ ἑαυτῆς ἀκούει. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 10 of 18 06 October 2011 at 8:48am | IP Logged | ||
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I thought, ἀκούειν governs the gen. of person: Νῦν ἡ Γλαύκα τοῦ Καλλιδήμου ἀκούει.
It might be better to take another verb to introduce the acc. PS. A lapsus: Ἡ ψύλλα τὸν Καλλίδημον δάκνει Edited by Cabaire on 06 October 2011 at 8:48am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sipes23 Diglot Senior Member United States pluteopleno.com/wprs Joined 4871 days ago 134 posts - 235 votes Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: Spanish, Ancient Greek, Persian | Message 11 of 18 06 October 2011 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | ||
You're right about the verb. Maybe την βοαν would be better. Or, just jump in with the genitive. There's ways around everything--you just need to be creative. If I recall my thinking it was this: ἀκουειν is a relatively high- frequency word, so introduce it sooner than later. And yes, a slip o' the fingers on the second. As I said, a first draft after some, but not enough, thinking on how the matter would be done, not a final product by *any* stretch of the imagination. In any case, I'm poorly equipped—at this point in time—to do much more than think about how such a project would be done. But I also know that LLPSI was many years work. I recently saw a copy from the 60s that only went to Cap XX. It had a big tip-in map of the Roman Empire and was casebound. It was the same, but different. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6660 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 12 of 18 06 October 2011 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think you’re missing out one one thing that LL takes a huge advantage of: cognates. Italia is Italy, Roma, is Rome,
Europa is Europa, etc. etc., so the words are easily understood without any previous knowledge of Latin. I tried, but I could not make out anything of the text you wrote albeit I know the greek alphabet. The wow-factor of LL is that you can show it to almost any person who speaks a european language and s/he will understand the first chapter and the second chapter without any translations given. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sipes23 Diglot Senior Member United States pluteopleno.com/wprs Joined 4871 days ago 134 posts - 235 votes Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: Spanish, Ancient Greek, Persian | Message 13 of 18 06 October 2011 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | ||
No doubt you couldn't make heads or tails of it. No pictures. No explanations. Three or four chapters in. Ka- boom! Too hard. You are completely right. LLPSI is very subtle in its execution. I saw an attempt at an LLPSI for Spanish, and it was a mess. The book's author wanted to do the "Spain is in Europe" thing, but immediately ran against the ser/estar distinction by page 2 that just screams for an explanation. Any given? No. But the cognates are there, so it wasn't too painful. (Well, and I was aware of the difference too. This messiness could explain why the book is no longer in print.) Where to start with Greek? Geography isn't it: 3rd declension nouns and dative case. Too much messy grammar from the first word. You also run up against Ἑλλας quickly too. Where's that? (Yes, I do know.) So geography for a dozen reasons is a non starter. Ørberg has two giant advantages and uses them: In = in. Latin is the same as English, Dutch, German, Italian. ἐν doesn't look like any word off-hand. Ev? I don't know that word. There is also the provincia/provinciā contrast which is pretty minimal (possibly invisible to beginners). So yeah, he's got a massive head start, and he uses it to his advantage. Where does Greek have that hook to take the edge off of the foreignness? Mythology. My suspicion is to start with something like: Zeus is a god. Hermes is a god. Ares is a god. Theseus is a man. Oedipus is a man. Zeus is not a man. κτλ (But, you know, in Greek.) Mind you, that ugly article is still hanging out needing an explanation. Particles will worm their way in quickly—by necessity, since the object is to get Greek as authentic as possible from as early as possible. Ørberg does the same: he never (so far as I've seen) presents Latin that is anything short of the literary standard, but it is definitely graded to reader ability. Look at how long some of the sentences are in the first chapter. Mind you, they're not periods or anything, but he's already headed there by the second paragraph. I really studied the first couple of chapters of LLPSI over the summer. Doing the same for Greek would be no small task, as my poor sample reveals. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5404 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 14 of 18 07 October 2011 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Nice to see my inquiry started this kind of a discussion. Best of luck sipes23, if you
ever write down that book I'll sure download an illegal copy from the internet, I promise. :-D 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6660 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 15 of 18 07 October 2011 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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How about Italian Athenaze, and using the English one for glossaries and grammar comments? Then you’ll get the
Ørbergian layout, and yet not having to deal with Italian. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sipes23 Diglot Senior Member United States pluteopleno.com/wprs Joined 4871 days ago 134 posts - 235 votes Speaks: English*, Latin Studies: Spanish, Ancient Greek, Persian | Message 16 of 18 08 October 2011 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||
Illegal download is the sincerest form of flattery. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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