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Mainly Mandarin-(yet another Chinese log) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Everplayer Diglot Groupie China Joined 5055 days ago 69 posts - 85 votes  Speaks: Mandarin*, English Studies: Japanese, German | Message 9 of 74 10 December 2011 at 6:24am | IP Logged | |||||
jia = home ren = people jia ren = people at home => family members li = inside jia li = (at) home => "family" in an abstract sense, not specifically referring to the people 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6235 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 10 of 74 10 December 2011 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
Ah, got it. Thanks! That makes sense. It would have been nice if Pimsleur took the 10 seconds to point this out in the lesson! X-o 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5314 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 11 of 74 11 December 2011 at 7:06am | IP Logged | |||||
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If there are already so many misleading and confusing things in the course that you've noticed, likely there're even more that you haven't noticed. I want to suggest you be careful and skeptical, but I don't know how one can do this when one is a beginner.
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| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6235 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 12 of 74 11 December 2011 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oh, I'm skeptical all right ;-) Again, I'm mainly using Pimsleur for the practice parroting the tones and for working on my pronunciation. There lies another shortcoming of the Pimsleur method. Without any texts to explain grammar, syntax and the little idiosyncracies of the language, the learner must resort to finding these things out on his/her own. That's why these logs are so valuable! The learner can shoot out questions such as the above, and people who have "been there" can throw their two cents in! As a side note @smallwhite: I have seen several threads on the debate for learning Cantonese vs. Mandarin. Many forum members have claimed that it is better to learn Cantonese FIRST as it makes learning Mandarin easier. Other native residents of Cantonese speaking regions have advised people moving to Guangdong/Hong Kong not to learn Cantonese at all as Mandarin has replaced Cantonese in all business. ( which I feel is a real shame!) What is your view on this? In this day and age is it worth going through the trouble to learn Cantonese unless one has a family or otherwise very specific interest? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6588 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 13 of 74 11 December 2011 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not Smallwhite, but I'd say if you want to learn both of them, Mandarin first is going to be a lot easier. There's more material and there's ample text in the language. Mandarin TV shows and movies are usually subtitled in Mandarin. Contrast this with Cantonese where there's less learning material, an extreme shortage of written texts, and most Canto movies and TV shows are subtitled in Mandarin. As to reasons to learn, there aren't really any reasons to learn any language, except for the reasons you find for yourself. Cantonese has a lot of fantastic cinema to enjoy, for example. But when it comes to written material, Cantonese is limited to comic books and a tiny amount of literature written in the dialectal movement in the 60's and 70's. In music, Cantonese is limited to a few old songs and most modern rap songs (but Canto rap really is something!). Everything else is in Mandarin (though the songs are sung with Cantonese pronunciation). So if you're not going to Hong Kong (which is an amazing place, rich and modern compared to poor and (dare I say it) dirty China), the movies are pretty much the only culture you've got to enjoy that's in Cantonese. But again, Hong Kong movies are really very good, and there are a lot of them (though fewer are made today than they used to,with actors going to China to make movies instead)! 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5314 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 14 of 74 12 December 2011 at 4:48am | IP Logged | |||||
I think I'd recommend learning Mandarin. Because... Learning Mandarin first should be easier, like Ari said, and because Cantonese is terribly non-standardised. We've never been taught Canto grammar at school, no one really knows the proper way of expressing something, everyone uses the same word a bit differently. Textbooks differ between themselves (or between chapters). Write on Lang8 and the corrections differ. That makes it hard for learners. And because most Cantonese speakers can at least manage Mandarin, but not the other way round. And this is not true: Mandarin has replaced Cantonese in all business. Not even in "some" businesses. It's actually just like in any social setting in any part of the world - there's no default language, you just pick the language that most participants are most comfortable in. And then if the biggest guy there is English, English we speak. Edited by smallwhite on 12 December 2011 at 4:50am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6235 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 15 of 74 12 December 2011 at 5:05am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks Ari & small white!!,
That's really too bad about Cantonese. It sounds like such an incredible, expressive language. I have read several articles where here in the States, the Cantonese speakers in the "Chinatowns" are taking Mandarin lessons . They are afraid that in these small enclaves, where Cantonese has been spoken for decades ( even centuries) Mandarin will eventually win out. I would like to learn some Cantonese someday, but for now I'll continue plugging away with Mandarin. Cantonese rap! I would love to hear me some of that!! Side note: @ Ari I saw on one of your other threads that you are a big fan of Chinese Pod. Did you use this exclusively when you were learning Mandarin? Edited by liddytime on 12 December 2011 at 5:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5314 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 16 of 74 12 December 2011 at 7:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've never understood why people say Cantonese dying out is sad, LOL. Learning Chinese at school as a first language when it wasn't really my first language, was sad. Not having any books or newspapers in your first language, is sad.
The Babylon Tower event, making one people speak different languages, was supposed to be a punishment! I don't think God did it to give Babylon more cultural richness and diversity, LOL. I don't like Canto rap but I do like this one that goes - I want to be like having won the first prize (lotto), have job but no need to do it, and the boss can't do anything about me; everyday wait for payday, nothing much to get nervous about, like that, no need to do anything, is most ideal :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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