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Polish TAC Team Żubr: Polski Dots | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Theodisce Octoglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5884 days ago 127 posts - 167 votes  Speaks: Polish*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Czech, French, English, German Studies: Italian, Spanish, Slovak, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Greek, Portuguese | Message 25 of 34 21 June 2012 at 12:11am | IP Logged | ||
Unfortunately, our mutual relations have been rather poor for the last hundred years. Poland and Lithuania became close allies at the end of the 14th century to fight a major power in the region- the Teutonic Order. A part of the alliance was the adoption of the Catholic religions by Lithuanians. It is important to notice that the medieval Lithuanian state encompassed not only present day Lithuania, but also large portions of contemporary Belarus and Ukraine. Most of inhabitants were East Slavs who professed the Orthodox faith. So the people who joined the Catholic Church were mostly ethnic Lithuanian polytheists. In 1569 the alliance was transformed into an union. Lithuanian and many East Slav nobles adopted the Polish language and, as time progressed, Polish identity. Lithuanian peasants still spoke Lithuanian. Such was, roughly speaking, the state of things at the time of the partitions. During the 19th century Lithuanian intellectuals rediscovered their nationality and, especially after the January uprising of 1863-64 distanced themselves from Poles. Sad to say, Poles didn't pay much attention to the Lithuanian national revival and still thought of Lithuania as of a future Polish province in the would-be independent Poland. WWI, regarded by many French, British, American and German people as a senseless bloodshed means something very different in Central and Eastern Europe. As the three empires collapsed, both Poland and Lithuania regained their independence. A new Lithuanian state was born, it's population being mainly Lithuanian. Poland was prepared to accept this, but wanted the region of Vilnius to be a part of it. The city of Vilnius was the old capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but only as little as 2% of the population was Lithuanian, the majority being Polish and Ashkenazi. Poland eventually took the city, an action that Lithuanians couldn't like less. After the joint German-Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939 Soviets "generously" ceded Vilnius to Lithuania, only to annex the whole country and start mass persecutions of the people as early as a year later. After 1945, most of the Polish inhabitants of the Soviet Republic of Lithuania were expelled to Poland. The official propaganda was full of praises of the socialist brotherhood of people, but, as a matter of fact, there was very little work done in terms of mutual Polish-Lithuanian relations. When Lithuania reclaimed its independence, Vilnius region Poles formed a kind of de facto autonomous region, which was soon dissolved by Lithuanian authorities. Ever since, the mutual relations have been bitter. Poland complains on the way Lithuanian state treats its Polish citizens, Lithuanians are haunted by visions of Polish revanchism. The prevailing opinion in Poland is that we have been constantly expressing our good will and been rejected and I'm sure Lithuanians see it in a different way. Edited by Theodisce on 21 June 2012 at 12:15am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5564 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 26 of 34 21 June 2012 at 2:58am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for taking the time to write that Theodisce, very interesting. It's a shame that bitterness exists on some level
between Poland and Lithuania. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 meramarina Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5965 days ago 1341 posts - 2303 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, French Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 34 21 June 2012 at 4:19am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks so much for writing this, Theodisce, it is very interesting to know and I'm very happy to hear from someone in Poland!
I've beeb reading some history, but I really need to sit down and spend some time studying the history the Eastern Europe. I've looked up some information now about Lithuanian immigration to the USA, and it appears to resemble Polish patterns very closely - in fact, the exact region a person came from was not always correctly recorded, and many were noted as being from Poland. They both settled mostly in the large industrial cities on the Northeast and Midwest I wonder how the two ethnic communities got along once they lived here? Well, the Polish study is coming along slowly, and it's difficult, but I like it. I'm learning a lot of very basic, ordinary words and only a few easy grammatical conjugations and declensions for now. That's enough to start. Sometimes I just like to listen to newscasts or other material far too advanced for me now - though I do catch some words now and then, which reminds me that this whole project isn't futile! I've often wondered if learning the language would bring back any memory of having heard it spoken when I was very young. Polish is the only language other than English that I heard spoken regularly when a child. And, a few times, I've had a strong feeling of familiarity, almost recognition, when learning a word. That's something I don't have with the other languages I study, actually something I'd never felt before in language learning. I had planned to write another entry today about yesterday. Yesterday I visited a Polish cemetery. My immigrant great-grandparents are buried there and I had never visited. Many of the stones had Polish inscriptions, and I saw Polish flags alongside the American ones and also on the homes in the surrounding neighborhood. I also received copies from my cousin of all the family records and photos he's collected over the years. I've never seen most of these. I have copies now of immigration and naturalization records and other official documents. What we want to do eventually is find out what other records or relatives may be in Poland today. Prior to the family's arrival here in 1907, we have only a few birth dates, names, and locations from Poland. It was kind of an emotional experience to sit down later, read these records, look at the photos, and know that I've now been to visit some of the relatives I never knew. Unfortunately, they don't have much to say these days! It reminds me, though, of why I want to learn their language and the history of where they came from. If anyone has a good comprehensive book to recommend about Polish/Eastern European history I'd like to know. I've looked up several but don't know which one(s) to use first. I did read some about twenty years ago and found the subject to be fascinating, but I didn't pursue the interest at the time and I remember so very little of it now. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5564 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 28 of 34 21 June 2012 at 11:03am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe these books by Norman Davies are held up as some of the best books one can read for Polish history (I
have them saved away for when I have uni holidays again). God's Playground: A History of Poland: The Origins to 1975 God's Playground: A History of Poland: 1975 to the Present And here's another by Adam Zamojski which is meant to be a good representation of Polish history also. Polish Way: A Thousand Year History of the Poles 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Theodisce Octoglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5884 days ago 127 posts - 167 votes Speaks: Polish*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Czech, French, English, German Studies: Italian, Spanish, Slovak, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Greek, Portuguese | Message 29 of 34 21 June 2012 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you for your kind words, meramrina.
The concept of Eastern Europe is a tricky one. From what I've learned, English speaking persons will often call everything east from Germany Eastern Europe. It's far from being an accurate designation. The geographical midpoint of Europe is somewhere in Western Belarus. The cultural/religious criterion when applied will show that Lithuania, Poland, Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Western Romania, Slovenia and perhaps Croatia are nothing but part of the West. That being said, I'm not offended by the notion of Eastern Europe as I know it's a rather common way to talk about the issue at least when using English. Many people from aforementioned countries may, however, not appreciate this. As often in such cases, it's all about history and many Central Europeans' longing for recognition of their western identity by countries like France, Germany, UK and the US. @Vos Davies is excellent, thats true. And he's far from being a blind polonophile. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| meramarina Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5965 days ago 1341 posts - 2303 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, French Personal Language Map | Message 30 of 34 21 June 2012 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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I actually didn't know how to refer to the area when I wrote that. It is a common expression in English, but not as much, I think, in the last two decades. I know it's not accurate, but I really didn't know the best word to use in English. American English seems to lack current terminology for the post-Cold War era. I hope I do not offend anyone in using the word, and actually would prefer something better. We don't hear a lot of news from there in the general media, unfortunately, unless we specifically look for it.
One of the best things about participating in an international forum such as this one is learning from people who are from the parts of the world that we study. So thank you again for your cultural insights, these are very important to know. Thanks also to Vos - I've heard of the Davies book, and I will look for it today. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Theodisce Octoglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5884 days ago 127 posts - 167 votes Speaks: Polish*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Czech, French, English, German Studies: Italian, Spanish, Slovak, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Greek, Portuguese | Message 31 of 34 21 June 2012 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you again! The difficulty seems to arise from the fact that many culturally western (Catholic/Protestant) countries were included into the Soviet sphere along with countries of Byzantine/Orthodox heritage.
The term I personally like is Central Europe. It's accurate in terms of geography and culture alike. Wikipedia has an interesting article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe And yes, international forums have their benefits, that's perfectly true. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| meramarina Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5965 days ago 1341 posts - 2303 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Italian, French Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 34 18 November 2012 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh, I have not done well this year !
But I think I can safely say that I have a unique reason, kind of like "the dog ate my homework" but much more serious, and sadly, true: A hurricane wrecked my house. I wish I could be joking this time. A photo of some Polish notes, found in the floodwaters of Hurricane Sandy: 
Of course this does not excuse my inactivity before the storm. I'll continue this log into next year. But I don't expect to make much, if any, progress in any language for quite a while. Happily, though, my language books survived! They were on high shelves. I had removed some books to take weight from the shelves - I thought that if a tree hit the house, they'd all collapse, and I threw them onto the bed just before I left. The waves were not so polite and hit unevenly, some places soaked, some untouched, and unbelievably, only half of thr bed got wet - the half without books - the books were all dry! They live in my car now. Almost everything else is gone. The house, they say can be repaired (hard to believe!) but is torn up now, walls, floors removed, all furniture, appliances and so much else - most belongings - damaged and gone. Including my clothes. Please don't laugh. Well, OK, if you must, but I have donated clothes to wear Floodwater is toxic and you can't keep things that got wet. I have a place to stay for now, and have been amazed and touched by the kindness of so many, many people. Sorry for the detour into non-Polish territory, but I need to explain why my studies will be suspended, and I don't know for how long. I'll try to stay active on the forum and do what I can with my languages, when I can. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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