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Tim from the US (PolyglotPal) on YouTube | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5002 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes  Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 41 of 204 02 April 2012 at 11:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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Tim, I also have a You Tube channel and if people post there and I'm not available, I would just not react. I'm fine with this that, if i post something, that I get no reaction. But You Tube has no function of "automatic" deletion of posts. I'm on You Tube since 2009, so I know how a You Tube channel works. I have read your post on your channel that you are in France without any internet access. My post was dated on the day that the New York Times article was published, but it's gone now. So, why??? (...) Gee, Fasulye, you sound as if you wanted to burn him at the stake. He has not committed any crime (even if he had deleted your post) ;-) I saw that you edited your previous posts but I still think you were way too harsh suggesting that he actually lied to you when he had already told you that he did not delete the post. I hope Tim won't be too frustrated by some of the rather unwelcoming posts here. (...) By the way: Welcome to this language forum! (...) That's the way to go Fasulye ;-) Fasulye[/QUOTE] 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5002 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 42 of 204 02 April 2012 at 11:57am | IP Logged | |||||
I really liked that interview. Funny that the Chinese lady thought he could do better as regards the accent (well, who couldn't ;-) while her English accent obviously wouldn't have impressed a lot of native speakers of English if she had been "put to the test" like Tim. I find that obsession with accents kind of strange if not counter-productive. Of course, it is great if you manage to speak with a near-native accent but I wonder why people keep jumping at the first chance to criticize a learner's accent when - at least in my opinion - there are so many other things worth being considered (vocabulary, fluency, etc.). Besides, from a learner's point of view I simply find it demoralizing to be constantly reminded of what you do wrong. There seems to be a tendency amongst "teachers", "instructors", "tutors" even language exchange partners to immediately point out where the learner fails in their eyes instead of focusing on the progress every learner will inevitably make if he is not permanently treated like a total failure. It's not about lying to a learner or praising him when there is little to be excited about, but I do believe that some encouragement can go a long way. Correcting people is fine but it should be done with a positive attitude in mind. And with regard to the interview, I'd like to add that my Chinese friends too found Tim's Chinese accent better than the lady's English accent. But, of course, she won't have to "defend" her position as a hyperpolyglot. In German we say "Viel Ehr, viel Feind". I'm afraid Tim this is something you will have to get used to. Edited by Rob_Austria on 02 April 2012 at 11:59am 14 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Pisces Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4622 days ago 143 posts - 284 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish*, French, SwedishC1, Esperanto Studies: German, Spanish, Russian | Message 43 of 204 02 April 2012 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think people are more critical when it comes to languages like Chinese than they are about English, since it's more unusual to have learnt Chinese.
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| portunhol Triglot Senior Member United States thelinguistblogger.w Joined 6252 days ago 198 posts - 299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: German, Arabic (classical) | Message 44 of 204 02 April 2012 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I also think that Chinese lady was unfair. The tones are hard for almost all foreigners and I don't think Tim has even been at Chinese a year yet. To be accurate, she could have said something like, "Wow! for only a few months of study this kid has wonderful Chinese. I can only imagine how good he could be in a few years of study." This would be encouraging and still imply that he did not speak perfectly.
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| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5960 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 45 of 204 02 April 2012 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
The Chinese lady's accent, while far from perfect, at least had a flow to it and hinted that she would probably have little problem discussing a wide range of topics in English. Tim's Chinese accent lacked flow, and suggested he would probably have trouble discussing a wide range of topics in Chinese. If you make grand claims ("I speak 26 languages") and voluntarily submit yourself to public evaluation, you should expect some scrutiny. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5130 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 46 of 204 02 April 2012 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know what part of China the woman is from or how long she's been outside of China, but maybe it's just cultural. I didn't feel she was unfair, just matter-of-fact. In my limited dealings with recently arrived mainland Chinese in a couple jobs I've had, they've all been very straightforward and to the point with their language. I don't think I've ever seen a "Oh my gosh, that's wonderful!" reaction to anything on the job from them. R. == Edited by hrhenry on 02 April 2012 at 5:15pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5002 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 47 of 204 02 April 2012 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
First, I am surprised you can tell so much just based on the two or three sentences he said. But I guess we all have our own ways of judging or scrutinizing people. However, I don't agree with you when you say the lady's accent (or the alleged flow her way of speaking had) suggests that she would probably have little problem discussing a wide range of topics. There are people who speak with very strong accents, little flow and yet have an incredibly rich vocabulary and are able to put it to good use in order to have interesting conversations. And then you get people who are excellent at imitating accents and yet can't even hold a conversation on any topic for 5 minutes. Those are certainly extreme examples but I have seen both. As for the Chinese lady, I'm sure she is as good as you suggest but I doubt anybody could come to this conclusion just upon having heard her speak those few sentences. I simply expect her to be that good because she obviously works for the BBC and I guess they do require people to be proficient in English before they hire them. Of course, you ought to expect people to scrutinize your claims. Nothing wrong with that. I just think that the way she commented on his accent made her sound a bit arrogant considering the way she spoke English as somebody who obviously has been doing so for many years in a professional setting. This is just my personal opinion. As I said, nothing wrong with trying to verify people's claims as long as you don't try to cover up your own imperfections with some condescending remarks. I would not go as far as to say that the lady in the interview was condescending. But if they really wanted to give a fair judgment on his abilities they should have asked him how long he had been studying Chinese. I think he is pretty impressive if you compare him to others living in a country for decades and still struggling to communicate in everyday life. I enjoy reading different opinions and I certainly enjoyed reading yours too. I simply don't agree with it but that sometimes makes a conversation even more interesting. As for Tim, I think he is really good in the languages I know and as far as I remember he never claimed speaking 23 languages perfectly or even fluently. And if he continues doing what he has been doing so far with the same passion he has shown in his vids, I certainly will be eager to hear and see more of him. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 5002 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 48 of 204 02 April 2012 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
It may be a consequence of that myth that "Westerners will never be able to speak good Mandarin" and no matter how good a Westerner is you still have to tell him he is not that good after all. It is not a specifically Chinese thing though. You get your fair amount of Austrians as well e. g. that criticize foreigners for their supposed lack of proficiency in German while they themselves can hardly put together one correct sentence in writing. It is basically a matter of attitude and education (including cultural awareness on the part of the person making such judgments), I think. I think she could have been more supportive and encouraging while still being honest. But maybe that was not her job during that interview. Or it is just not her way of doing things. That does not make her a bad person, but I probably would not want to have her as a teacher. Not because I want people to lie to me but because I want people to encourage me. At the end of the day, you will always have people criticizing you. Some will do so to help you improve and make progress, others might just enjoy putting you down. That's life. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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