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Ending up disliking a TL and its culture | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| benzionisrael Triglot Groupie Spain Joined 4670 days ago 79 posts - 142 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese, SpanishB2 | Message 1 of 84 17 February 2012 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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Has anyone ever experienced this fenomenon? Ever became infatuated with a given foreign language, studied it at depth, even to advanced fluency, only to end up disliking the language and feeling a sense of contempt towards its culture and nation?
I experienced this with Japanese. I studied the Japanese language when I had a deep interest in east Asian language. I saw it as an attractive oriental language and a good contender for my first Asian language. I was impressed by its complex and beautiful writing system and its then unique grammatical structures. Also the fact that Japan is probably the most easy to live and modernized country within the region led me to choose Japanese over certain other oriental languages. In the end, I studied Japanese to an advanced level, lived some time in Japan, completed all the proficiency tests, etc... only to end up full of regret and feelings of contepmt for Japan and its culture. Even though I speak Japanese fluently, nowdays I don't feel comfortable with Japanese people and make no effort to meet people. Knowing that all the friends I met there turned out to be false friends who only are around when they want something, I have a certain distrust for Japanese people. On top of that I also dislike their superficiality, exlusivity and their typical Japanese-style sheep mentality. I am not saying that my way is absolutely right and their way is completely wrong; I just believe that it is not in accordance with my own personal tastes, and therefore maybe it was a mistake of mine to get involved with Japanese culture. What remains certain is my complete lack of desire to try to interact with Japanese people. Previosely I actively persued friendship, but like I said, nowdays I don't even bother. Similarly, I feel that although I speak the language proficiently, I don't fit the mold. Not being Asian and living in Japan, I always felt isolated and unaccepted. Some Japanese people even fear people who are racially diferent from themselves. In Japan, I always felt like I was swimming against the current. In addition, I am also disapponted with the recent impurity of the Japanese language. I am vexed by the excessive influx of unnecessary western loan words which are taken into the language just because the Japanese are in a phase of western worship and occidental fetishization. Now even some Japanese themselves admit that it has gone too far. Nowdays with so many monstruous katakana loanwords, written Japanese just looks cheap and tacky in my opinion. The classical language was much more beautiful. Anyway, sorry if it seems like a rant. I would really like to regain my love for the Japanese language and culture but at the moment I cannot help but feel dislike for both of them. Is it normal to end up feeling this way about a language? Has the same experience ever happened to anyone else? 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4720 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 2 of 84 17 February 2012 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, my case with Russian is not the same, but...
...I love Russian, find the language beautiful and nice, I like studying it, but I don't usually like "the Russian way" of treating others. Being born and raised in Brazil, we get used to warm and nice people everywhere, going out of their way to help you, or at least treating you decently. I've been to Russia twice, both times I spent I month in Moscow. The young people are very nice and eager to meet new people, I've had a great experience with that, but when it comes to middle-aged or older people...and also anyone working at a store, a market, a post office, a bank..the policemen... all of them treat you like YOU're making them a favour by buying whatever-they're-selling you. Both times it was a relief when I came back to Brazil (and the second time to Spain first), because I couldn't take it anymore. We "westerners" take it for granted, but it's really nice being treated well as a customer. All I can say is that, as much as I like studying Russian, the language, some people... at the same time I have this feeling that I'd NEVER enjoy living there for a long time. Maybe that's only in Moscow or St. Petersburg, but as a software programmer those are the places where I could work, and if they can't give me a decent treatment, I'd rather stay away. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| benzionisrael Triglot Groupie Spain Joined 4670 days ago 79 posts - 142 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, SpanishB2 | Message 3 of 84 17 February 2012 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | ||
I can totally agree with you my friend. I too have spent much time in the Mediterrenian world and here in Spain most of my friends are from Latinamerica. Like you I am used to the warm treatment which you speak about. People going out of their way to get to know you and make you welcome. I love it. In Japan it is not so. People could't care less unless they want something from you. Over there friendship just seems to be a means to obtaining personal gain. From my experience, in Japan if you don't make a huge effort, you wont make friends easily. Here and in South America for example, people just make you welcome from the start and making friends is almost effortless. So I ended up thinking... why even bother with Japan when here and in South America people are so much more warm and friendly? I might as well just forget about japan and spend more time improving Spanish and learning the likes of Portuguese, etc... so that I can deepen friendships with warm and caring people from those countries. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4962 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 4 of 84 17 February 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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ah sorry misread. Edited by Ellsworth on 17 February 2012 at 6:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| benzionisrael Triglot Groupie Spain Joined 4670 days ago 79 posts - 142 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, SpanishB2 | Message 5 of 84 17 February 2012 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | ||
It seems that you haven't comprehended my original post at all. As I have stated clearly, I had already studied the Japanese language to fluency before I started to feel dislike towards Japanese culture. I am not learning the language of a culture I dislike. I have already learned it. It is already a completed past action. Therefore your comment makes no sense. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jdmoncada Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5039 days ago 470 posts - 741 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Finnish Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 6 of 84 17 February 2012 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm only a year into studying Japanese, but I admit I've had my doubts that I wanted to work the language to an advanced degree. Some cultural things have given me pause to rethink my goals. For me personally, it was never about the culture so much as the pure joy of liking the language, yet to use it correctly, culture knowledge is essential.
My thought to benzionisrael is this: At least you now know more than you did before. You have experience and can make an informed decision. So those things aren't bad. [I'm trying to look at it all in a positive light.] 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6954 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 7 of 84 17 February 2012 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's called culture shock. Eventually you get over it and become a more open-minded
person for it. But seriously, even though I'm annoyed by your remarks about Japanese people, I do know where you're coming from. I went through the "contempt for Japan and everything Japanese" phase, as do probably most Westerners who are confronted with a culture that has such fundamentally different attitudes to so many things. For example, as an American, individual liberty is a core value to me, but in Japan it takes a back seat to social harmony and interpersonal relationships (this blog explains it very well). Also, I still get frustrated from time to time by things like gender roles and the education system. But the bitterness and slight condescension I detect in your post has passed for me, and being forced to think about these issues and examine my most deep-seated beliefs about the world has helped me grow as a person more than anything else in my life so far. Don't force yourself to study if you don't feel motivated right now, but don't give it up as a lost cause, either. I'm sure you won't regret that you've learned Japanese, and will learn to love it for what it is, not what you thought it should be. Edited by Lucky Charms on 17 February 2012 at 3:50pm 22 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Itikar Groupie Italy Joined 4674 days ago 94 posts - 158 votes Speaks: Italian* | Message 8 of 84 17 February 2012 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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I experienced this phenomenon with some languages/cultures. With Swedish for sure and lately also with German. With French instead it went the opposite way.
But despite my general feeling I know that it is me, who is wrong and not the culture of that language as a whole. Or, on the other hand, maybe it is just SOME people, whose native language is that I was studying, that have something wrong. Not every native speaker, their countries or cultures as a whole. World is not black and white and cultures are not corporations. Sometimes we should ask ourselves if it there is something wrong in us, instead that in our interlocutors. I believe this is a way to improve ourselves. :) On the other hand I think there is nothing wrong in deciding to abandon the study of a certain language, after having recognized that many elements of its culture make you uncomfortable. In general the way personal relationships are handled varies a lot from a culture to the other. And often, what we perceive as rudeness and detachment is often desire to respect and not to disturb one's liberty. Sometimes it is even our way to approach other people that in certain cultures doesn't look good, and that can be perceived by someone as rude. About me, I was very keen on Scandinavia and on Scandinavian languages when I was a teenager and in particular on Sweden, because here it is very often named as an example of advanced social policies and all that. Luckily I didn't go further than studying a bit of a phrasebook (despite it turned out anyway useful and I absolutely don't regret it), because after going in Sweden I appeared not to like their excessive detachment and attitude of the people in dealing with me, and they didn't appear to show any happiness in a tourist trying to learn their language. So I dropped completely Swedish and promised myself that if I were to study a Scandinavian language, that would probably have not been Swedish, but Norwegian or Danish instead. This because people there seemed me more welcoming toward foreigners interested in their culture. Despite that I recognize it is not any Swede's fault, since after that experience I met many times polite and friendly Swedes. :) Edited by Itikar on 17 February 2012 at 3:37pm 6 persons have voted this message useful |
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