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American or British accent more popular? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 25 of 70 30 May 2012 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The number of Western Europeans living in the UK is a drop in the ocean, the bulk I understand are from Eastern Europe, and even then the numbers aren't that huge.
Also, most tourists visit London, and London is not typical of England. In London you hear mostly non-standard and non-native English accents. It's hardly a bastion of well-pronounced RP. In my experience, many Europeans seem to regard the UK as a conservative country far more culturally in tune with America than with the rest of Europe. Most of what I read about the UK in the Spanish and French press (using my limited knowledge of those two languages) is very stereotypical and mostly focuses on the Royal Family and the idea that Brits are arrogant, and Eurosceptic. Edited by COF on 30 May 2012 at 3:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 26 of 70 30 May 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Not to mention there are probably far more French, Spanish and Italians working in the USA than working in the UK.
I don't know about Poles, as I think the UK has been a big draw for the Polish, but I suspect there's more Western Europeans in the US. Edited by COF on 30 May 2012 at 3:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 27 of 70 30 May 2012 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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While I'm not denying that many continental Europeans do immigrate to the UK, the point I'm trying to make is that in most European countries, more of their countrymen have historically immigrated to the USA, and thus most probably understand more about American culture than British culture.
For example, since the 1960s, about 3,500,000 Italians have immigrated to the USA. While in the UK, there are only about 106,000 Italians. It's the same for the Polish, since the 1960s, around 2,000,000 Polish have immigrated to the US, while the number of Poles in the UK is around 515,000. It's similar for almost every European nationality. Far more have gone to the US than have gone to the UK, which makes learning American English far more relevant than learning British English, the accent of an obscure island that most Europeans have no link to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_immigration_stati stics Edited by COF on 30 May 2012 at 3:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5565 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 28 of 70 30 May 2012 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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So we are in logical fallacy day today:
You said: 'most Europeans don't really know much about British culture beyond stereotypical references' ‘the true essence of British culture is as much a mystery to the continental Europeans as it is to the average American’ ‘a country they [continental Europeans] don't know very much about’ When asked to substantiate that you start making immigration comparisons with the USA, proving what - that more people from continental Europe emigrated to the USA in the post war period than the UK - true facts but sophistry nonetheless, a puny attempt to side step the fact that your initial points have no basis to them - The facts you cite tell us nothing about the familiarity of continental Europeans with the UK. You then go on to exclude London from the UK, presumably on the basis that Estuary English is 'non-standard' (it is pretty much a co-equal standard with RP in the populous South East of England) and the quite frankly racist assumption that one hears a majority of non-native accents (which, aside from tourists, is not the case except in a few strongly Asian or Caribbean areas of Greater London that tourists never visit). Whilst London is the size of a Scandinavian country in terms of population and is the obvious metropolitan capital with most of the tourist goodies - Windsor, Edinburgh and Stonehenge rate in the top 10 of tourist attractions, so people from other countries clearly go out of London. And then we have 'an obscure island that most Europeans have no link to' - according to a quick google most Western European states have about an equal trade connection to the UK as the USA give or take a point of a percent. I am sure that your proposition that it is probably better for continental Europeans to speak with an American accent is right as this opens more doors, although, if ones' trade is in the UK, speaking with an American accent probably closes doors in some places as well - certainly in my experience in academia or the professions like law, medicine or finance. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 29 of 70 30 May 2012 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Oh dear. That statement alone tells me what sort of person you are. You don't like what you hear, so you pull the race card. So British. Sorry to break it to you Britisher, but most Italians feel far more link to the USA than they feel towards the UK. It's probably the same for most other Europeans too. For Italians, the USA is the land of hopes and dreams, where you make it big. The UK is just a wet, damp, overcast isle full of boring people, bad food and silly pomp and ceremony. Ok for a visit, but no place to live. On the whole what makes you think the average German, Italian, Spaniard, etc, know any more about the UK than British people know about their countries, as I'm sure you're not trying to suggest the average British person knows more about Western European nations than they know about the US?
How the hell is that not relevant? Most European nations have a much bigger diaspora in the USA than they do in the UK. In fact, I suspect that in many European countries, they average person has no idea that some of their nationality live in the UK, but I suspect most are fully aware that many live in the US. The UK is completely off the radar of the average European. The average Italian cares no more about the UK than the average Brit cares about Italy. Fact.
Trade links are totally irrelavent to the average person. It is exposure to a country's culture and media that is important and the average continental European has far more exposure to American culture and American media than British culture and media. As I said before, most articles about the UK in European newspapers tend to be about the Royal Family. Edited by COF on 30 May 2012 at 5:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Globe-trotter Triglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4597 days ago 29 posts - 44 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Thai | Message 30 of 70 30 May 2012 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Some ridiculous statements have been made about the UK (and what Western Europeans ought to think about it). I am a Western European, from the Netherlands, and in pretty much all schools here British English is taught -- for obvious reasons, as its a neighboring country, and well regarded as a global economic and cultural power. Of course, the U.S. is also a global power, but that doesn't make the UK any less important. Compare it with Spanish. In the Netherlands, European Spanish is taught. In the U.S., Latin American Spanish is taught. One could argue forever which of the varieties is more important, however, it's a useless debate as it totally depends on the learner. Some are more interested in British culture or economic perspectives, others in that of the U.S. Both are very worthwhile. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 31 of 70 30 May 2012 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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More Dutch people speak English with an American accent than a British accent and Dutch people have more exposure to American culture than British culture. Edited by COF on 30 May 2012 at 5:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Globe-trotter Triglot Newbie Netherlands Joined 4597 days ago 29 posts - 44 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Thai | Message 32 of 70 30 May 2012 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, because many Dutch people have learnt English from movies and television before attending school. However, it's not clear cut, as those who start learning from school usually speak British English. In my friends group, it's about 2/3rd American English. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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