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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 25 of 34 13 September 2012 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
What do you mean by 2-3 times, 2-3 exercises or 2-3 sentences? Nowadays even doing one exercise with boring examples feels like a torture to me... :D Yeah, I think it would be great for my Polish if I could just speak Polish-Russian and adjust it more and more towards proper Polish. That's what my mum did in Poland :D But for me this would feel disrespectful, given that these are not just grammar mistakes but an invasion with Russian grammar ;/ I have no problems doing the same in Spanish though, hehe. When I had a text corrected at lang-8, pretty much ALL my mistakes came from Portuguese :D The problem is that I prefer writing to speaking (unless I'm travelling), and in writing these things can look ugly. I suppose a good exercise for me would be to take a text I like and (automatically) delete some small words and endings and reconstruct them... If that's a literary text then I could even shadow it with an audiobook on, filling in the gaps orally. I remember a site where you can paste any custom text and you need to reconstruct the word order, but nothing like that, hm... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4707 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 26 of 34 13 September 2012 at 12:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It depends on the method and the situation what solution I am using. For example, I am
using FSI Swedish right now and the end of the chapter contains a tonne of drills designed to be repeated over and over. My usual approach is the following - I do all the drills once. Then I use the following criterion. 1) Can I produce the desired grammatical feature fluently by the end of the series (this is about 15-30 minutes depending on the size of the unit). This does not imply 100% accuracy but that I get the principle right and that in 90% of cases, the response is automatically correct before I see/hear the answer. If no, then I go to step 2), which is repeat the practice until I can produce it fluently. If yes then I don't repeat that drill (or in many cases I just skip the entire section) when I decide to do a repeat drill (this is usually the next day). I never have to do it more than 3 times to get to my desired level. If I have to do it more often I will obviously, but then it's probably one single issue I have problems with and that's usually easy enough to fix. The bottom line is that I don't worry if it doesn't come out 100% right directly. I do not have any sort of perfectionism concerning this and I am not afraid to make mistakes. If I am working with a textbook like for French class, then my tack is simply "I do the exercises the teacher says" but don't pay more attention to them than that. Usually the French grammar topics are rehashes of things that are buried under a layer of peat in my brain, and simply need one activation to be fully ready for reuse. For Russian I did a bit more drills but I never spent much time on them either. Whenever I see workbooks I literally spend only 5-10 minutes rushing through the answers, and they're usually close to 100% correct. The problem really is that memory is simply a strong suit of mine and I don't really need rote memorization that much to get to where I want to be. My focus areas tend to be pronunciation (to get the sounds right) and producing coherent, connected phrases of text that aren't me mumbling through it. Then for languages I have learned but have to reactivate, it's the fossilized mistakes I made back then that I have to erase (not remembering noun genders, in the case of German adjective declension is a huge problem). Edited by tarvos on 13 September 2012 at 12:28am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4533 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 27 of 34 13 September 2012 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think this is a bit like asking the Mac vs PC vs Linux question.
I have been using Anki for a bit over three months and have found it very helpful. I think wordlists wouldn't work as well for me, but that's just a preference. I like the way Anki implements SRS, and if you want you can always adjust the relevant parameters to have cards appear sooner/later. Anki also allows you to link audio etc to your cards which I have heard some people find helpful; though for me this would be too much work. I guess the main thing I like about Anki (which is a bit stupid) is that it can't really be paused. It has really forced me to do daily word/sentence drills. Of course, if I had the right study ethic I would do this with paper and pen, but that wouldn't really happen. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 28 of 34 13 September 2012 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
:-) I know what you mean, but I don't think it's as extreme as that. Committed users of any of the above probabably wouldn't go near the other two with a barge pole :) Whereas, for example, word-lists and physical flashcards can be perfectly compatible.
Sounds a bit of a fiddle-faddle though.
There is that, but how does Anki know how you are feeling that day, and whether you feel you know a word, or only think you do? I sometimes find I'm going through my non- anki methods, all the time making subjective judgements whether I really need to practice a word still, or if I can lay it to rest, at least for a while. No computer program can do that for you. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4533 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 29 of 34 14 September 2012 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't really find that much of a problem. For wordlists on Anki, I either know the word or not (I visually see the word in the TL for the answer so I know whether it's correct/wrong); with sentences in the TL - which make up about +70% of the cards - it's pretty obvious whether I am understanding them or not. Sometimes I have sentences that I understand and that have long repeat times, which have some grammatical point or word I want to practice and so I just tell Anki I have forgotten it, so it goes back to a daily repeat. I am adding about 35 cards/day to Anki, but I am in a particular situation: I am unemployed, and need German for work; so I have lots of motivation and free time. Anki on it's own wouldn't be enough, but in addition to speaking practice, and active listening via TV/Movies (without subtitles) it's working very well. At some point I'll probably just switch to reading/tv/radio but Anki is really helping. Edited by patrickwilken on 14 September 2012 at 7:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6272 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 30 of 34 15 September 2012 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I didn't vote as I might use either or both methods. Flashcards are especiallly effective with basic vocabulary. If you are well into the language and want to learn large amounts of vocabulary in a short term, then lists are better.
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| nonneb Pentaglot Groupie SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4751 days ago 80 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English*, Ancient Greek, Latin, German, Spanish Studies: Mandarin, Hungarian, French | Message 31 of 34 15 September 2012 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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With European languages related to ones I know, I don't use flash cards or word lists. I tend to prefer lots of input
with an occasional dictionary reference. The good thing is, that's fun and I don't really even count it as studying. I've tried word lists and flash cards for Chinese, and had little success with both of them. That turned around when I started doing sentences targeted towards new words or new grammar points in flash cards, and I started learning at a much faster rate than I was with individual words. I now follow this approach with any language where most of the vocabulary looks foreign to me. I just can't imagine sentence lists being as hassle-free as sticking them on jMemorize or Anki for me, but I imagine that's just preference. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| stifa Triglot Senior Member Norway lang-8.com/448715 Joined 4873 days ago 629 posts - 813 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, EnglishC2, German Studies: Japanese, Spanish | Message 32 of 34 15 September 2012 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@nonneb
That's what I've been doing as well. It's almost like we're cheating :D 1 person has voted this message useful |
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