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TAC 2013 - Team Kofola CZ | ||
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| nuriayasmin70 Diglot Senior Member Germany languagesandbeyoRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4526 days ago 132 posts - 162 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: SpanishB1, Portuguese, Czech, Hungarian | Message 25 of 31 04 February 2013 at 11:33am | IP Logged | ||
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"Czech step by step" gives an example sentence for the word order when you have several
words which require the second position in the sentence: Bál jsem se mu to dát. So the order for the second position is: 1. auxiliary verbs in the past and conditional (e.g. jsem) 2. reflexive pronouns (se or si) 3. short personal pronouns in the dative case (e.g. mu) 4. short personal pronouns in the accudative case + often "to" However, I'm still struggling a lot with the word order, too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Wompi Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 4961 days ago 56 posts - 64 votes Speaks: German*, Spanish, English Studies: Czech | Message 26 of 31 10 February 2013 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mockrat děkuju za informace.
Pravě jsem vědel ten domacni ukol. Takže jsem rozhodl psat něco o obou tematech. V jižnim nemecku kde bydlim na masopust řikame Fasching. Je dobu když každou se převleka a oslavi. Nicmeně tady to neni vyznamny zvyk. Je spiš jedna možnost vic na oslavovani a opijit se. Naproti tomu v Koln se nazva masopust 'Karneval'. Tam je jako blazen protože skoro cele město a ještě vic turisty oslavuji. Tam neřeknou zadarmo že to je 5 obdobi. Jsou tam taky procesi ale nevim jestli ma ten zvyk starou tradici. V Spanělsku masopust je tradičnejši, aspoň kde jsem bydlel. Na procesi měli tam tradični kostymi(vypadali jako z kukluksklan s spičatymi klobouky :-) ), několik mužu nesli nositku s kruzifixem atd. Ted pišu o zimě. Jak vidite bydlim blizko alpy tak ja mam rad zima. Sportuji hodně v zimě. Dřiv jsem jezdil často na snowboarding ale dneska jsou sjezdovky přeplněne a z toho duvodu jsem začal jezdit na bežkach. Taky jsem potkal hodně lidi ktery bydli tady a nenavidi zimu ale ja myslim když maš tou možnost proč to nevyužit. Mam dojem že zima už neni jako předtim. Bud' prši nebo snih jenom zusta po dobu dva tydny. Měli jsme 16 stupnu o stědry den. Zdalo se mi jestli jsme oslavovali v australii. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4662 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 27 of 31 10 February 2013 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Wompi, here are my corrections. Underlined instead of strike through and italics with better wording.
The word order is this time much better. There are some problems remaining but you cannot expect to get it completely correct this fast. Few explanations: The first one is easier explained using German, because the mistake stems from your native language. "umsonst" has two possible translations. "zadarmo" is used only when you would use "kostenlos" as well. "Zadarmo"=kostenlos, frei The second translation is "nadarmo" or "marně", used for every other meaning of the word. "Nadarmo, marně" = vergeblich Bydlím blízko Alp. It needs to be corrected, the Alps = Alpy is plural, the tricky part is that there exists a liniment "Alpa" (singular, feminine) and "Bydlím blízko Alpy" is unintentionally funny. "V zimě hodně sportuji." - neutral word order, but even more important, "v zimě" binds to the previous sentence. In this context, this is the only logical word order. As a rule of the thumb, use When (Who - often missing) What Where Details word order. This is the case in "Na štědrý den jsme měli 16 stupňů." as well. The complete sentence would be: Na štědrý den (When) jsme měli (What) u nás (Where) 16 stupňů (Details). The last point is at this time meant for your information only. Don't try to correct it all at the same time, keep it in mind for future reference. Combining verbs next to each others with "a" / not combining a noun (derived from verb) and verb in this case: oslavování - is derived from oslavovat (or slavit). Putting this noun next to a verb "oslavování a opíjet se" is not possible. You need both to be either nouns or both to be verbs. This means either "oslavování a opíjení se" (both nouns) or "oslavovat a opíjet se" Two verbs next to each others should need the same preposition, use the same tense and have the same aspect (vid). This means putting "se každý převléká (převlékat=process) a oslaví (oslavit=finished)" is not possible, the aspect is different. Possible variants are "se každý převléká a oslavuje (oslavovat=process)" or "se každý převléká a slaví (slavit=process)" or "se každý převleče (převléct=finished) a oslaví (oslavit=finished)". The last one needs to "close" the action, for example by "se každý převleče a oslaví karneval společně". 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5354 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 28 of 31 12 February 2013 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Majka, I wasn't aware of the general 1. When 2. What 3. Where 4. Details - word order rule, I realise it's just a basic rule of thumb but could come in handy.
What exactly is the difference between "oslavovat" and "slavit"? I don't feel the difference and have heard and used both without knowing why. Edited by hribecek on 12 February 2013 at 6:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Wompi Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 4961 days ago 56 posts - 64 votes Speaks: German*, Spanish, English Studies: Czech | Message 29 of 31 12 February 2013 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you very much for your detailed correction Majka.
Originally I wanted to write "neřika se nadarmo ..."(from Assimil) but I confused the two :-) Is the one from Assimil also usual or is it better to write the one from your correction. And thank you very much for the thumbs rule :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4662 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 30 of 31 12 February 2013 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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@Hříbečku,
@Wompi, the answer to your both questions is the same. For me, there isn't a difference between oslavovat and slavit, neither is there a difference between marně and nadarmo. The aspect pair of "celebrate" is currently a triangle - "oslavovat" and "slavit" for the process (imperfective) and "oslavit" for the finished verb, for the "result" (perfective). "Marně" and "nadarmo" has a third too, again, without a difference in usage and meaning. The third word is "darmo". It is slightly old-fashioned, and in modern language used ONLY in the sentence "Darmo se neříká." and as a part of "darmožrout/darmojed" - as a expression for a lazy person (he who does nothing to earn his meals). But "marně" is slightly more useful as an active word because the only adjective in modern usage is "marný". 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Wompi Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 4961 days ago 56 posts - 64 votes Speaks: German*, Spanish, English Studies: Czech | Message 31 of 31 14 March 2013 at 10:57am | IP Logged | ||
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Sorry. It has been a long time since I wrote something.
Almost two weeks ago on the weekend I was at a conversational course in Munich and it was ok. I could talk (by far not free of errors) but I was fluent at a basic level in topics I knew. On the other hand in topics (e.g. Disasters like earthquake etc.) where I don't know much vocabulary it was very hard to build whole sentences. Unfortunately until now I haven't continued with conversations because I havent't looked out for a teacher yet but I hope this will come soon. A week ago I also started out to refresh my almost forgotten Spanish on which I want to focus on. So I will still work on czech but more in a extensive way (like reading, hearing and hopefully conversations etc.) and not so regularly. With learning Spanish again I realized how difficult czech really is :) What I am also trying to do is to build up some language islands (as said in the book "How to improve your foreign language immediately" from Boris Shekhtman) and see if it helps in any way. Edited by Wompi on 14 March 2013 at 10:59am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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