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Aspects learners know better than natives | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| boon Diglot Groupie Ireland Joined 6162 days ago 91 posts - 177 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Mandarin, Latin | Message 25 of 41 05 April 2013 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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Spanish natives sometimes make spelling mistakes, especially with the letters S, C and Z.
I was "corrected" by a fellow English speaker for saying something along the lines of, "You and he went to the shop". Apparently I should have said, "You and him went to the shop". Very easy to figure out problems like this. Would you say, "Him went to the shop"? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4265 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 26 of 41 05 April 2013 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | ||
I would say just grammar. Most natives don't know "why" certain sentence constructions are used--they just know what is right and what sounds correct. But the issue with "there/their" and "your/you're"; I chalk that up to lack of education. It is pretty inexcusable, at least to me, for English speakers to butcher the English language so much. Not rocket science. effect/affect is another common, inexcusable mistake. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4625 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 27 of 41 08 April 2013 at 10:14am | IP Logged | ||
One that irks me is the confusion between loose and lose. I have seen this error in museums and in official publications. Yet the people who make these sorts of mistskes are often highly proficient users of English in an oral capacity. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Tsopivo Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4474 days ago 258 posts - 411 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Esperanto | Message 28 of 41 22 April 2013 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree with that. While I agree that there might be some aspects that learners know better than natives, I do not think this is the case for the examples given in the first post. In France, everyone has to sit through grammar and conjugation lessons for both French and for English in school. In my experience, it tends to be the same kids who write "j'adores" or "ce film sors" and who confuse "there/their" and "your/you"re". However, while those kids might later post comments on Youtube in French, chances are they will not end up speaking English and commenting on Youtube in English. The contrary is also true, I did not make either of those mistakes on a regular basis and I did end up posting in both French and English on internet. Therefore, you might notice French speakers writing "j'adores" or "ce film sors" more than "there" instead of "their". However, this is not due to learners knowing that better than natives but simply to a bias in the selection of people. There is also the fact that most people write a lot less in their TL than in their NT and pay more attention to their grammar, conjugation and spelling when writing in their TL than when writing in their NT - partly because this is more of a challenge for them and partly because they often write in their TL in a "learning context" (for example, writing an essay that will be judged on its grammar, conjugation and spelling) whereas they write in their NL only for communication. If I write a dozen posts in French everyday, not focusing on my spelling, but only a 500 essay in English per week, odds are I will write "ce film sors" but will not make the "their vs there" mistake. Again, this is not due to a learner knowing better but to bias. Also I am a bit unsure how the OP knows whether a Youtuber is a native or a learner. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| casamata Senior Member Joined 4265 days ago 237 posts - 377 votes Studies: Portuguese | Message 29 of 41 22 April 2013 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE]
One that irks me is the confusion between loose and lose. I have seen this error in museums and in official publications. Yet the people who make these sorts of mistskes are often highly proficient users of English in an oral capacity. [/QUOTE] Really? People mix up "loose/lose"? How can they?! I don't get that one! Yeah, I've seen a lot of PhD's make these grammar/spelling mistakes. True, they are science PhD's, but still. It is like, "really"? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| boon Diglot Groupie Ireland Joined 6162 days ago 91 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Mandarin, Latin | Message 30 of 41 22 April 2013 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | ||
One that irks me is the confusion between loose and lose. I have seen this error in museums and in official publications. Yet the people who make these sorts of mistskes are often highly proficient users of English in an oral capacity. [/QUOTE] Really? People mix up "loose/lose"? How can they?! I don't get that one! Yeah, I've seen a lot of PhD's make these grammar/spelling mistakes. True, they are science PhD's, but still. It is like, "really"? [/QUOTE] People often think the word 'lose' is spelt 'loose'. 'Loose' is a more intuitive spelling, but it's still wrong. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 31 of 41 23 April 2013 at 12:11am | IP Logged | ||
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No, it's not. Loose is pronounced with an s, not with a z.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5229 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 32 of 41 23 April 2013 at 2:01am | IP Logged | ||
You're sure to find a lot of final consonant [de]voicing differing between places, or even single speakers of the same language within an area. For those who play exclusively by ear, that's a real minefield. I find much harder to understand how people can consistently swap sounds and pronounce 'ask' as it were 'axe' and the like, than how they mix up things with similar sounds like than/then, man/men, etc. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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