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To Bible or not to Bible? | ||
Tags: Translation | Book | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 25 16 April 2013 at 11:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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Long ago I made some bilingual printouts using the machinery at Lexilogos (a site which also has the most versatile virtual keyboard I know of). I stopped doing it because the Bible text in itself mostly will err on the conservative side even in modern editions, and the translations used at the site are mostly dusty old venerable ones with a phraseology and vocabulary to match. Instead I have turned to machine generated translations in spite of their high error level. I didn't fear being converted (that won't happen), and being mistaken for a devout christian is also a minor risk, at least where I live. Edited by Iversen on 16 April 2013 at 11:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| SnowManR1 Groupie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5490 days ago 53 posts - 95 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 10 of 25 16 April 2013 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You’re not alone. I use the Bible method quite regularly and currently do this for German, Italian and Hebrew. In all my searching there has never been a greater paralleled text resource then with the Bible. Plus there’re usually only 2-3 editions (excluding English) to choose from in the target language, so you don’t have to worry so much in regards to picking a revision too far from modern day English.
I think Italian has 3 editions (only 1 being modern), German had 1 (I think) and Hebrew had one as well, but its well worth your time to verify which one corresponds to your native language version. Also let’s not forget how organized the Bible resource is with each line labeled by verse and under each chapter, which makes reading the two side-by-side as a paralleled text a breeze. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5168 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 11 of 25 16 April 2013 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
Which app is that? The same as bible.is? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Talib Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6663 days ago 171 posts - 205 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (classical) Studies: Arabic (Egyptian) | Message 12 of 25 17 April 2013 at 2:31am | IP Logged | |||||
That pretty much sums it up. There are other parallel language resources out there for commonly taught languages, so I think it has more to do with the approach rather than using the Bible in particular. Edited by Talib on 17 April 2013 at 2:34am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 25 17 April 2013 at 10:30am | IP Logged | |||||
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Let me try to sum it up.
In favor of using the Bible: It has been translated into just about every language on the planet It has a fixed structure with books and verses It is available both online and on paper There are already several bilingual systems available Quotes and expressions from the Bible have entered a lot of languages Against using the Bible: The language in most translations is conservative, if not downright antiquated You will almost certainly be comparing two translations, not a translation and an original Some persons may not want to be associated with the Christian religion For me the first of the three arguments against using it weighs quite heavily, whereas I live in a country where it doesn't matter whether I'm seen with a bible or not. On the Pro side the main theme is the easy - and often free - access to the text. And for some languages it may even be difficult to find other texts (but then you might ask yourself why you want to learn those languages in the first place if you can't find anything to read in them). There are alternatives like internationally acclaimed literary works like Harry Potter, Wikipedia, certain homepages with parallel multilingual versions etc., but often these alternatives cost money and for some languages they may even be difficult to get outside a specific geographical area. So even though I'm not religious I think that using the Bible is a relevant shortcut to getting really long parallel text samples - as long as you also use sources that illustrate the current state of your target language(s). Edited by Iversen on 17 April 2013 at 10:31am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4680 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 14 of 25 17 April 2013 at 10:31am | IP Logged | |||||
The topic is precisely about not so commonly taught languages... in which the Bible may well be (one of) the only book(s) available for parallel study.
And if you read Harry Potter, people will think you want to become a sorcerer? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5534 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 25 17 April 2013 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
This particular line of discussion is risks turning into a religious argument, which our administrator has kindly asked us to avoid. So rather than discuss the historical plausibility of the Bible, or what people might think if they catch you reading it, let's focus on the Bible as a language-learning tool. Interestingly, the Gothic language (the earliest attested Germanic language) is preserved primarily in a few Bible fragments. These fragments supposedly are not that good a translation: The grammar is said to be noticeably influenced by the Greek source material. This brings to mind a second question: When you use the Bible to learn a language, is it (a) your only parallel text, or (b) the only written text available in the target language at all? If you can find other native texts and a half-way decent dictionary, you can dispense with parallel texts quite early in the learning process. But if you're learning a language where there's virtually no written material at all, I'd presume that you'd normally have some access to actual speakers (or be willing to settle for a very low level). 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 25 17 April 2013 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In some places reading the Bible in public may be downright dangerous, but here we are probably talking about study at home in presumably safe countries. But reading Harry Potter in public might also be seen as a sign that you are a hopeless nut case with a penchant for sorcery. If you suddenly become totally absorbed in reading stuff from some religious or political organisation then your family may also become worried about your mental sanity, but then you just tell them that you are studying the language and that you aren't going to be a preacher or terrorist or stockbroker or fan of some popstar - then that problem should be solved. They have probably already accepted you as a language learning maniac.
Btw. fearing to be associated with a certain religion is one thing, but this discussion should focus on the use of the Bible as a linguistic source. This discussion will at the very least be closed if it turns into a discussion for or against Christianity (or religion in general). Edited by Iversen on 17 April 2013 at 4:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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