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Gary’s TAC 2014: Spanish, Italian, French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 129 of 138 17 November 2014 at 10:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Epiphany of the weekend: it's time to give up Spanish. For now.
French has become useful again, and I'd like to get my level in that up to scratch. In that last post I said that I realised my listening comprehension for colloquial conversations could be better, and a few real-life conversations have confirmed that. While I may speak well at meetups, keeping up with a real group of French people is much more challenging. And my Italian is still in the annoying stage of conversational but not quite fluent, along with the ups and downs from lack of consistent practice; my French has been there and done that so I know it's just a question of more time and effort. When I'm not happy with my level in two languages, having in a third in the mix is stupid really. I've been learning Spanish for almost a year now and that experience with my very unimpressive results is enough to make it obvious that I've not had adequate time for it. My Italian was significantly better after six months than my Spanish is after eleven, even though the latter has a gentler learning curve for me because of the two similar languages. Of course, I wake up every morning with a different idea of which language(s) I should quit and which I should keep studying, as is probably obvious by now. But most of those ideas are just reactions to relatively short-term things, like my recent issues with the Italians or my frustrations at the French earlier this year. This current decision is based on the long-term goal that I've had for about five years, to become fluent in all three: I'd rather get better at the first two before continuing to tackle the third. Even that is a compromise; I still think one at a time is the most efficient way, but I like Italian too much to not have it in my life (although I am still contemplating that break!). My Spanish efforts haven't been for nothing. I can follow conversation and TV, and speak in conversations. Not very well, but a lot better than before. I should be able to maintain that then pick it up again whenever I decide it's the right time, and in the mean time enjoy the benefits if I happen to find myself at another party with Spanish people. Following up the last few posts: I tried making bilingual subtitles for a film and the results were very promising. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7206 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 130 of 138 17 November 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Your experience sounds familiar to me. I made a similar decision to focus primarily on one language. I think
when we come back to the second or third, we'll be the better for it because number one will be more solid. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 131 of 138 17 November 2014 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree, especially with related languages. More solid Italian would surely make Spanish easier, rather than floundering around in both. Getting a grip on Spanish verb conjugations is tougher when I still get the similar Italian ones wrong sometimes. A few people can and do get good results studying lots of languages at once, but for the rest of us I think that focusing on fewer at once is best, especially if your free time is limited. I think I did quite well to reach a decent level of Italian while continuing to improve my French, so two seems like my limit, although who knows whether I would have done better or worse had I waited for longer to start Italian. Edited by garyb on 17 November 2014 at 3:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 132 of 138 25 November 2014 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I just spent a long weekend in Stockholm. I have a friend there (who is Italian and is there for work) and I met a few of her friends too. It's interesting seeing the language situation there which has been much discussed on this forum, that it's so easy to get by in English without knowing Swedish that many foreigners just don't learn it.
To me, like to most people here, the idea of living in a country and not learning the language can seem unthinkable, since so many of us do the opposite thing of learning languages outside the county for which we have no immediate need or often even use. I felt a bit embarrassed not understanding service staff and obliging them to switch to English, and that's just as a tourist. But from talking to these friends there I can understand. They're keen to learn Swedish but they work long hours, often in English-speaking offices, and their social circles are a mix of Swedes and foreigners. Between lack of time, lack of energy, and lack of necessity I can see why people make slow progress, if any, despite good intentions. I met one Italian who spoke fluent Swedish after 8 months there, but he wasn't working for most of that time so he was able to dedicate himself to it. I spent a long time travelling as I had to change at London, and in typical Ryanair style, the airport is quite far from the city. This gave me time for a lot of reading. It's too rarely that I have the chance to read for hours and get into the book, rather than fitting in a quick chapter during lunch hour or before bed. I've now read most of La possibilité d'une île (I like it; I'll give more thoughts when I finish) and read over half of Bastogne by Enrico Brizzi (which just seems like a disjoint collection of sex/drug/crime stories; so far quite disappointing compared to his first book which I loved). Also, airports are good for overhearing foreign language conversation; airports in London are always full of Italians. There were flights to Venice, Pisa and Rome, so I was trying to determine where people were going based on their accents. On Spanish... Giving it up has been much more a question of perspective than a question of how I spend my time: instead of not studying much Spanish and feeling bad about it, I'm now not studying much Spanish and feeling fine about it. I'm still doing Anki reps which should keep it alive until I pick it up again. Getting French and Italian to the level I'd like could well take another few years, but distraction, impatience, or practical uses might well come up before then. While I don't think wanderlust is a problem for me, I do think impatience can be and I've often had that "I want to learn everything and learn it now!" feeling. After several years of language learning I'd say I'm only just starting to get past that now. Edited by garyb on 25 November 2014 at 12:15pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5237 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 133 of 138 25 November 2014 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||
I hear you brother! Can I get an Amen! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 134 of 138 01 December 2014 at 11:27am | IP Logged | ||
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A long-overdue positive post. I'm finally feeling a bit more awake, energetic and positive. Let's hope it lasts. I'm not doing much better yet in the free time respect but I've got a lot of time off work this month so that will improve.
A few days ago I was at a dinner with Italian and Spanish people and had the chance to speak both languages. It was fairly relaxed because they didn't speak each other's languages perfectly and there was a general idea of just giving it a try, so there wasn't the pressure to keep up that there is when you're with a group of native speakers of the same language. I spoke Italian quite slowly and correctly, giving myself time to think; since I'm not working on Spanish any more I didn't really care about my ability, which again actually made me speak it better. Of course, the perception of pressure is mostly just in my head, so there's no reason I can't learn to feel that "low pressure" way even in "higher pressure" situations. It's not easy but I'm sure it's possible. It's like relaxation: even if the situation influences your feeling, the feeling itself comes from inside you. I finished "La possibilité d'une île". Like I said, great book. I can sort of understand the controversy: it makes fun of modern society and could be seen as critical of progressive politics, and it talks a lot of the middle-aged male protagonist and his sexuality, so more immature readers probably just dismiss it is a politically incorrect work or at least find it hard to relate to. But if you can look past that I think it's very well written and philosophical about the nature of life and love even if I don't agree with some of the viewpoints. Now I'm keen to read more of the author's works and also some of the French classics that he references. And perhaps some Nietzsche; I'd be reading a translation anyway so might as well read it in a language I'm studying. I've not managed to catch much of the French film festival, but I've got a copy of the programme so I can look up some of the films at a later point. Maybe when I'm off work I'll get through a few books and films. Bilingual subtitles are turning out to be quite useful. I re-watched "Tutta la vita davanti" with them. 95% of the time I was just reading the Italian, but having the English there was handy for some idiomatic expressions. If I can find good TL and English subtitles for a film then I might as well use them. They definitely help me focus on the speech and pick out details. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 135 of 138 02 December 2014 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | ||
I've been saying for ages that I'd like to try some iTalki tutoring. Since I have a lot of time off work this month, it might be a good time to take the plunge. I went on the site and found someone who teaches both Italian and French, and says they teach culture and accent reduction as well as the usual stuff.
I'll also try re-establishing contact with some previous exchange partners now that I have a bit more time and energy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5208 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 136 of 138 08 December 2014 at 11:39am | IP Logged | ||
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Reading
Recently I've been in the mood for more classic/literary stuff. Over the last few days I've read most of Voltaire's Candide; it's a surprisingly easy read for something from a few centuries ago, and I'm sure others on here have said the same. After that I've got Il gattopardo lined up. Films I saw Ne te retourne pas; I expected a French film but about a third of it is in Italian, which was a pleasant surprise. And I'm trying to track down some of the stuff that I didn't manage to see at the French cinema festival; yesterday I watched La chambre bleue. Speaking Booked an iTalki trial lesson for Wednesday, and I'm looking forward to it. There's been a lot of talk on here recently about how much working with tutors has helped people, so hopefully this will give my speaking skills the boost that they need. I should be able to take a bunch of lessons while I'm off work, and then once life goes back to normal, one every week or two is probably realistic. Italki's great in that you don't have to commit to a schedule and can pretty much book when it suits you. I've said it before, but self-talk is great. I've been fairly consistent with the Italian self-talk plan and it seems to be helping. I've not had many conversations recently but the ones I've had have been quite good. I've had a few French conversations; my level has been inconsistent as always and my pronunciation is rusty. Again, self-talk could help that. Next year It's too early for a TAC wrap-up, that'll come in a couple of weeks, but I've more or less decided that my plan for next year will just be to keep working away at French and Italian, continuing to focus on improving my speaking. I think reaching a more fluent level in both is quite possible, especially with some tutoring. It'll cost a bit of money, but that beats losing time with unreliable language exchanges, hit-or-miss meetups, or relying on the goodwill of native-speaker friends. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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