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Radioclare’s TAC log 2014 (*jäŋe/*ledús) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 361 of 522 08 October 2014 at 12:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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And unlike all of you, I do have problems with stress in Russian, but I found it quite
easy to deal with vowel reduction and palatalization compared to the grammar... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4581 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 362 of 522 08 October 2014 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
Wow. Is there anything particularly scary about the grammar which you think I should watch out for? The previous times I tried to learn I spent so long failing to master vocabulary and pronunciation that I didn't get very far with the grammar! I am hoping that the main advantage of Russian will be that there are so many more resources available than for Croatian. So when I do come across particular complicated concepts, I'm hopeful that if I don't understand the explanation in one book I'll be able to find another explanation elsewhere that makes more sense :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 363 of 522 08 October 2014 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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No, because it will be almost the same as in Croatian. Maybe there are little
differences, but I couldn't tell you bout those - I don't speak enough Croatian or Serbian to judge. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5164 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 364 of 522 08 October 2014 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not yet; I am at the same situation as you are with Russian =D (though my Russian is far behind your Croatian). Once I can read Russian freely, I may start it. As for the book, it is very good, just not as good as other Living Language books like the Russian one. The dialogues are shorter, which carry on less context, unlike the long dialogues at LL Russian for instance. The grammar explanation seems quite good and comprehensive. I expected more because I had been through two LL Russians and the Spoken World series seem to be a 'lighter' series, but even so it's still above what you find on the market, especially in terms of dialogues and cultural insights, since some textbooks that focus heavily on grammar tend to be poor at this respect. Not for you at your current level, though. Btw, I also got Assimil Croate (French base), so you can imagine how I feel now that I have books for learning Croatian in my favorite series and have to wait to start. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 365 of 522 08 October 2014 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
There won't be anything particularly frightening for you in Russian grammar and I agree that the sheer number of resources (and learners and native speakers) will make it very easy for you to get a second, third or nth opinion on something that seems tough to grasp in Russian. However I do suspect that your entering Russian with such a strong background in BCMS/SC means that early on your mind will be expanded somewhat by the following grammatical bits: 1) The concept of "to go" is more elaborately rendered in Russian than in BCMS/SC. 2) The dative, locative* and instrumental are more distinct in Russian than in BCMS/SC; this means that you'll deal with a wider range of case endings here. 3) A negated direct object is usually in genitive but it can be in accusative given certain conditions. See here). 4) The accusative plural for animate nouns (male or female) is marked by the same endings as genitive plural. 5) Superlatives do not usually follow the widespread Slavonic technique of adding the prefix naj-/nej- to the comparative form. In fact the technique to form comparatives and superlatives in Russian is more varied than anything that I'm used in other Slavonic languages (see here and here). Examples per the following list are below: E.g. 1) BCMS/SC: Idemo kući (pješice). Russian: Мы идëм домой. BCMS/SC: Idemo kući (autobusom/biciklom/tramvajem). Russian: Мы едем домой. The Russian translation of ići is rendered by separate verbs for moving on foot and by vehicle (there are other distinctions, but this is a basic one. See here. In BCMS/SC you could make the distinction clear by using an adverb or putting the vehicle in the instrumental case. In Russian, using the adverb or vehicle in instrumental would typically be superfluous since the verb itself gives a big clue on whether you're moving on foot or by machine. 2) E.g. dative, locative, instrumental BCMS/SC: K-pop se sviđa mojoj bivšoj djevojci / mojim(a) bivšim(a) djevojkama. Russian: K-pop нравится моей бывшей девушке / моим бывшим девушкам. BCMS/SC: Zašto govorimo o mojoj bivšoj djevojci / mojim(a) bivšim(a) djevojkama? Russian: Почему мы говорим o моей бывшей девушке / моих бывших девушках? BCMS/SC: Idu kući s mojom bivšom djevojkom / mojim(a) bivšim(a) djevojkama. Russian: Они идут домой c моей бывшей девушкой / моими бывшими девушками. * locative is typically labelled "prepositional" by those involved in teaching Russian although I find that the convention makes little sense especially when the other cases' names reflect function or concept. This idiosyncracy reflects the observation that the case's endings appear only after certain prepositions - i.e. you can't have case endings for locative without a preceding preposition unlike say with the instrumental or accusative. 3) E.g. accusative, genitive BCMS/SC: Vidim tvoju djevojku. Ne vidim tvoju djevojku. Russian: Я вижу твою девушку. Я не вижу твоей девушки. 4) E.g. accusative, genitive BCMS/SC: Vidim tvog(a) prijatelja / tvoju prijateljicu // tvoje prijatelje / tvoje prijateljice. Russian: Я вижу твоего друга / твою подругу // твоих друзей / твоих подруг. 5) E.g. BCMS/SC: brz > brži > najbrži; brzo > brže > najbrže Russian: быстрый > быстрее > быстрейший; быстро > быстрее > быстрее всего / быстрее всех 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 366 of 522 09 October 2014 at 12:46am | IP Logged | |||||
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as for the superlatives, the good news is that the analytic form with самый is used a lot. In fact, the synthetic ones are generally more subtle, kinda like the forms with -issimo in Italian often just mean very, or like "a most" as opposed to "the most" in English.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4705 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 367 of 522 09 October 2014 at 11:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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Also, the common way of rendering "by car, by train, by bus" (I'm not sure if the
instrumental case is wrong here, it's just to my knowledge uncommon, Russians please correct me if I'm wrong), is by using the preposition на + locative. Как ты сюда приехал? - На автобусе (на машине, на поезде). Edited by tarvos on 09 October 2014 at 11:23am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 368 of 522 09 October 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yeah, instrumental is more common in the meaning of driving across something (though even that is kinda literary).
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