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Radioclare’s TAC log 2014 (*jäŋe/*ledús) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5237 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 465 of 522 04 December 2014 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
That actually made me laugh out loud. Good luck with that, I study, read and listen to French and still didn't understand them in conference calls even when they spoke English. But hey, It's all Greek to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 466 of 522 04 December 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's "саммит" in Russian too. The thing is that here the word was probably derived from
the American pronunciation, for which the closest equivalent in Serbian is "a". (same in Russian). If you're from Northern England "u" doesn't sound like "a" of course, but to a Slavic ear, the American variants do :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 467 of 522 04 December 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
Ha, yeah, I think the problem here is that no one can understand their English and that apparently I will have magical powers to do this because I like languages. I'm guessing this is the same logic(?!) by which I was asked to babysit someone on secondment from Thailand because I speak Esperanto.
Yes, that makes sense :) I have no knowledge of American pronunciation, to the point that I often don't understand Americans when they speak. My boyfriend was watching an interview between Stone Cold Steve Austin and Vince McMahon on TV last night and I think I would have understood more if Austin had been speaking Croatian :D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 468 of 522 04 December 2014 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Also, the Slavic u normally corresponds to English oo or o (like in Вулверхемптон ;)). You seem to think that the u pronounced as a is rare, but it's really the default pronunciation of u, apart from the words where it comes with a j sound (like in Манчестер jунаjтед :D)
I'm trying to thing of other words where u is simply u in English and I can only think of pudding. edit: Had to look that up, pudding is indeed more or less an exception, along with some other words that start with p or b, like push, bush, put or pull. Edited by Serpent on 04 December 2014 at 2:03pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 469 of 522 04 December 2014 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
:) I guess I'm not trying to say I think it's rare (or indeed that I think there's anything wrong with it!) but just that it sounds odd to me and so every time I come across a new word like that it catches me by surprise? Vowels in general upset me. In Вулверхемптон the vowel which catches me out is the 'е' in 'хем', even though I know this isn't even just a Slavic thing but happens with words of English origin in German as well (eg. Handy). In terms of pronunciation, I think the Slavic vowel I struggle with most is 'o', as when I started learning Croatian I was pronouncing it like in Esperanto. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 470 of 522 04 December 2014 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There is a reason for that: the English vowel inventory is very wide and often
features subtle little changes from what we call the cardinal vowels (as they are used in Spanish, Hebrew etc). English subconsiously turns pure vowels into diphthongs and labialises/palatalises certain vowels. Because this is not reflected anywhere in the orthography, you get funny results when transliterating to other languages or even when pronouncing loanwords in other language. The "a" in Wolverhampton is not an "a" in any mainland European language except maybe for Danish. It's more like an æ. This sound is fairly rare cross-linguistically and many people simply pronounce it as "e" because it's an allophone of that in their language - this happens not only to Slavic people but also to Germans, Dutch speakers, Romance language speakers and so on and so forth. (Scandinavians sometimes have similar sounds and find it a bit easier). Conversely, I find English vowels very strange because it's one of the few languages in which the vowel sounds are not represented very logically with regards to the alphabet. Even in French, where the silent consonants are a big problem, the vowels are always more or less the same (excluding long/short variations, but those are easy to get used to for Dutch speakers). For me your "e" is an "i", your "oo" is "u", "a" often sounds more like "e", "u" sounds like "a". Many sounds have almost switched position as if they have rotated through the vowel system. Edited by tarvos on 04 December 2014 at 2:31pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 471 of 522 04 December 2014 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In Russian it's Вулверхэмптон btw, э being as close to this sound as we can manage (at least while speaking Russian!). Note also that a more correct pronunciation will sound unnatural or pretentious if we're speaking of proper nouns/loan words.
This is kinda like demanding English speaking to make a distinction between ć and č. I'm just glad when they know it's some kind of ch! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4584 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 472 of 522 04 December 2014 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
I 100% believe you but I honestly can't hear the difference between the 'a' in Wolverhampton and an 'a' in any other language. This concerns me slightly as it potentially means I'm pronouncing 'a' wrong in every other language I speak. Or possibly it is like the a/u thing and I just don't pronounce English correctly due to my local accent. I know there are some weird vowel sounds associated with my accent, eg. I pronounce the word 'tooth' as 'tuth' rather than 'toooooth'. I'm trying to resist the temptation to run around the office asking people to pronounce 'Wolverhampton' for me so that I can hear whether there are any differences :) But yes, if I think about how hard I have found trying to learn French pronunciation that I can't even imagine how hard it must be for anyone to learn English pronunciation! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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