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Dead Languages & Polyglottery

 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots Post Reply
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victor
Tetraglot
Moderator
United States
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6 sounds
Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin
Studies: Spanish
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 Message 81 of 115
27 July 2006 at 7:00pm | IP Logged 
Sinfonia wrote:

Well, I can't speak for others, but I grew up believing that modesty and humility were virtues. You don't go around boasting that you've got a PhD, or that you were majestically giving the little people the benefit of a few crumbs of wisdom brushed from your Great Table.



I don't quite agree with how you've put this together, Sinfonia. Is a man (or a woman) supposed to deny the experience he has in the area? Most people give more weight to opinions to people who are more experienced. And in this case, a polyglot in a language forum. Ardaschir had his opinion and you had yours, but I have yet failed to see why Ardaschir should not mention his PhD or how he has expressed his opinion in an unmodest manner.

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Malcolm
Triglot
Retired Moderator
Senior Member
Korea, South
Joined 7349 days ago
500 posts - 515 votes 
5 sounds
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Korean
Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Latin

 
 Message 82 of 115
28 July 2006 at 3:38am | IP Logged 
I meant no offense to other forum members when I said that Ardaschir's posts are the most valuable on this forum. I do believe that some forum members are more experienced in certain areas than others, and therefore have more valuable information to offer in these specific areas. For example, I always look out for Cthulu's posts, as he has a lot of experience with Mandarin and posts information which is valuable to anyone learning the language.

I'm not as experienced as Cthulu, but I've put about 2,000 or at most 3,000 hours into language study and I feel that I know things about learning Chinese that may be beneficial to those who are just beginning the language. I think I also have enough experience with language learning in general to be able to contribute to more theoretical discussions. Ardaschir, if I interpret his posts correctly, has spent between 40,000 and 50,000 hours on languages, and has used many different language materials and learning methods. This naturally means that he has more experience to share than I do, but the real value of his posts lies in the fact that they are enormous and filled with practical information. He has spent many hours writing rather long reviews/learning guides for languages like Persian, Arabic, and Hindi. His posts are incredibly valuable (to most of us) not just because he has so much experience, but also because he's willing to share his experience by typing huge posts with very practical information.

I don't know of anyone else on this forum who:

A) has mastered at least two dozen languages including exotic ones like Korean, Persian, Arabic, etc. and also dead ones like Latin, Anc. Greek, Old Norse, etc.

and

B) is willing to type enormous posts sharing his/her experience as well as giving detailed practical advice on becoming a polyglot and using specific language materials.

This doesn't mean that he's the only one who can post something of value, of course, but I still believe that he has the most to contribute because of his experience and willingness to share.
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Tjerk
Bilingual Pentaglot
Groupie
Belgium
Joined 6791 days ago
54 posts - 59 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, English, Spanish, French
Studies: Swedish

 
 Message 83 of 115
28 July 2006 at 4:14am | IP Logged 
I've read quite a few posts of Ardashir and I can only comment that he himself must be a very modest man, he was just trying to help others out using his own experience.

I find on the other hand also definitely that Sinfonia is a modest man, even not saying with which authority he speaks even if he too speaks a great deal of languages.

But this forum is not about persons and who is the most modest (Actually I think that "most modest" is a contradictio interminis (oops some latin :-p)

This thread is about the usefulness of dead languages in a polyglot career and then I still defend my original claim.

Namely, you have a choice, if you are more interested in cultural and historical background and enjoy great literature dead languages are definitely a must. If you are on the other hand more interested in the conversational aspects of languages and a full-time traveller you’ll have more profit out of learning only living languages and their dialects.

Of course (like in Buddhism :-) there’s also the path in between, which I chosed to follow

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Journeyer
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
tristan85.blogspot.c
Joined 6902 days ago
946 posts - 1110 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, German
Studies: Sign Language

 
 Message 84 of 115
28 July 2006 at 11:53am | IP Logged 
Well, said, Tjerk. I agree with you concerning these two gentlemen on the forum. It would be more valuable listening to each other than trying to have a contest of some kind. Everyone, Ardaschir, Sinfonia, you, me, etc, has something to bring to the table here.

Edited by Journeyer on 28 July 2006 at 11:53am
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frenkeld
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6977 days ago
2042 posts - 2719 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: German

 
 Message 85 of 115
28 July 2006 at 12:18pm | IP Logged 
Sinfonia wrote:
I'm sorry if that offends American (or Germanic) sensibilities on these boards, but life's too short to sit typing responses to all those who don't like the idea of a forum where you can say someone's edicts are 'daft' or 'a bit pompous at times'...


Each forum seems to have a personality of its own, with more unwritten than written rules. Heck, if I learned to live with a Russian forum where expletives were frowned upon, one ought to be able to learn to live with the somewhat austere demeanor of this one.

I am personally very interested in finding out what languages you know (that you care to mention) and, more importantly, your way of learning them. There are others who do too, so I hope you'll be back soon to tell us all about it.


Edited by frenkeld on 31 July 2006 at 6:34pm
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Sinfonia
Senior Member
Wales
Joined 6778 days ago
255 posts - 261 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 86 of 115
31 July 2006 at 6:42pm | IP Logged 
victor wrote:
Sinfonia wrote:

Well, I can't speak for others, but I grew up believing that modesty and humility were virtues. You don't go around boasting that you've got a PhD, or that you were majestically giving the little people the benefit of a few crumbs of wisdom brushed from your Great Table.



I don't quite agree with how you've put this together, Sinfonia. Is a man (or a woman) supposed to deny the experience he has in the area? Most people give more weight to opinions to people who are more experienced. And in this case, a polyglot in a language forum. Ardaschir had his opinion and you had yours, but I have yet failed to see why Ardaschir should not mention his PhD or how he has expressed his opinion in an unmodest manner.


Victor, it's not about denying the experience, but about not illuminating it in neon. Let's be honest, this isn't any kind of academic board, is it? So PhDs don't come into it (especially when its subject matter isn't even mentioned). I don't want to say any more publicly, because then it really will look as if I have something against the man, which isn't the case, as I've tried to explain.
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Sinfonia
Senior Member
Wales
Joined 6778 days ago
255 posts - 261 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 87 of 115
31 July 2006 at 6:52pm | IP Logged 
Malcolm wrote:
I meant no offense to other forum members when I said that Ardaschir's posts are the most valuable on this forum.


I'm pretty sure you didn't; but around here you have to be careful what you say. LOL

Malcolm wrote:

Ardaschir, if I interpret his posts correctly, has spent between 40,000 and 50,000 hours on languages,


That much? 5 hours a day for thirty years...?

Malcolm wrote:

but the real value of his posts lies in the fact that they are enormous and filled with practical information.


I don't deny that. But the trouble is, they also patently contain stuff he's made up. I quote:

Ardaschir wrote:

Polyglottery is the art of learning languages consciously and well.

surprisingly few polyglots are multilingual.

I believe that the distinction between being -lingual and being a -glot is fundamental. You are -lingual if you are lucky enough to be raised speaking several languages instead of one. You are a -glot if you learn several languages as an adult.


No (European or American) linguist would take any of these assertions seriously. And for someone who has, you say, mastered ancient languages, why doesn't Ardaschir know that 'multilingual' means exactly the same as 'polyglot', the only difference being Latin vs. Greek?

How can anyone not consider these comments 'silly'? (And the first one 'a bit pompous'?) **

Malcolm wrote:

This doesn't mean that he's the only one who can post something of value, of course, but I still believe that he has the most to contribute because of his experience and willingness to share.


Well, I think you're wrong. I could name several current posters whose contributions are more accurate, if not as lengthy.

** By the way, whilst digging out those comments of Ardaschir's above, I came across this one by the Administrator himself, which exactly parallels mine:

Admin wrote:
The linguist Richard Hudson tried to coin the word 'hyperpolyglot' with the idea that already with 6 languages you would be such a thing. The same person tried to find a brain condition that would explain this 'phenomenon'. I think this is quite ridiculous.


Needless to say, no one jumped on him. What's good enough for Admin is good enough for me.

PS: There's nothing remotely ridiculous about Hudson's comments.


Edited by Sinfonia on 31 July 2006 at 7:01pm
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Sinfonia
Senior Member
Wales
Joined 6778 days ago
255 posts - 261 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 88 of 115
31 July 2006 at 6:55pm | IP Logged 
Tjerk, Journeyer and Frenkeld, thank you for your remarks.

frenkeld wrote:

one ought to be able to learn to live with the somewhat austere demeanor of this one.


Glad it's not just me!

frenkeld wrote:

I am personally very interested in finding out what languages you know (that you care to mention) and, more importantly, your way of learning them. There are others who do too, so I hope you'll be back soon to tell us all about it.


Thank you again for your kind comments :-)



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