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"Just tell me what to do" | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5213 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 17 of 37 23 January 2014 at 11:12am | IP Logged | ||
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Personally I'd just do much the same as I and a lot of us are already doing: start with a good course or two, read/listen to/watch lots of native materials, study some grammar every so often, speak whenever I can, and use SRS to help remember stuff. But due to the deadline and the importance, I'd also be much more open to investing some decent money to speed up my progress, that is, working with a good tutor.
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| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4375 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 18 of 37 23 January 2014 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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The language is German, right? Or did I misread that? Here's what I would do:
1) Get a course that has both audio and exercises. I won't specifically say Assimil because I haven't used it, but because of the time constraint, exercises, proper pronunciation, and listening are important. So I would physically write out full exercises (questions and answers) even if it seemed repetitive. 2) Use a separate grammar book or a website and just focus on grammar. The two things that English speakers tend to worry about are cases and word order. Again, exercises should be written out fully, at least in the beginning. I would go to the separate grammar resource if I had particular trouble with a certain point. I wouldn't necessarily use it everyday. 3) On weekends I would take a break from the outward grammar study and just do something "easier." For me that was Deutsche Welle podcasts. 4) For listening, try to start off with something dubbed (either a series or a movie that you know in English that's been dubbed over). This tends to be better in some languages than others, but German actually has much better dubbing. This can be difficult the first time you sit through a full tv show or movie, but after a few months of grammar/book/audio study, it should be enough to pick out main ideas. I personally don't use subtitles because I tend to be distracted by them, but if they work then go for it! 5) Find somebody to speak with around the end of finishing whatever course you choose. That will help fluency come more quickly. I always think in the beginning especially, it's best to focus on speaking in shorter, simpler sentences. It tends to be more manageable to handle. 6) You can probably get to this point sooner, but definitely start reading books after year one. 7) I hate mentioning it, because I do not do ANKI or other SRS programs, but given the time constraint, I think you almost have to do more active vocabulary learning (I don't handle flashcards very well, so I just write down wordlists and go over them.) **You should be able to find side by side translations and subtitles of materials, I just can't comment on them because I don't use those methods. If it isn't distracting to use them though, start as quickly as possible. 8) I would also add that you would need to have exposure everyday to the language. Consistency is key. 9) At a certain point, sometimes you realize that the method you're using isn't working, or you're just bored with it. If that's the case, it's okay to change your method. For example, if you're tired of reading all the time, focus more on listening. At roughly 30 hours a month for 18 months, that would be 540 hours, which should definitely place within the B1 range, possibly reaching into B2 in some areas. I should add that I wish I could keep up the consistency part of it! It's so easy to let other things take priority! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6603 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 19 of 37 24 January 2014 at 7:57am | IP Logged | ||
For the same reason, it's important to learn to have fun in L2. lyricstraining.com is one of the ways to do so, and Deutsche Welle offers some more. Hopefully other members know some sources, too. Otherwise especially when you're already in Germany, you'll be tempted to live in an English bubble when you still need to improve. Make sure you don't spend time on English just because it's more fun. OP, are you familiar with the resources about learning that I mentioned? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4539 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 20 of 37 24 January 2014 at 9:05am | IP Logged | ||
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It's perhaps useful to think of language learning as having a relatively short-beginning, long-middle, and really-long-end.
In my mind the only point of the beginning is to get you to the middle part. The middle part is where can start on a daily basis interacting with native materials (reading/listening) and over time communicate more and more (writing/speaking). At the start you need to get an overview of the grammar, get a feel for the sound of the language, learn some basic vocabulary. The beginning does not need to take too long. Your main task is to get to the point where you can pick up a book and start reading. This took me six months in German, but redoing things I probably could have got to this point significantly sooner. To read a book you basically have to have enough grammar to know how the language works, but you don't need so much that you can generate the grammar yourself. I read a basic grammar book over the first month and that worked fine for me, but Assimil or one of the other courses would work just as well. You also need to have enough of a feel for the sound of the language so that when you are reading the voice in your head is generating at least approximately the correct pronunciations. German is relatively easy in this regard, English not. I would recommend starting to watch TV shows almost from day one so you can start getting a feel for the way the language sounds. And finally you need to get some basic vocabulary to read with. There is no absolute number here. Perhaps 3000 words? Find a frequency dictionary or some basic reader and start adding words to Anki. I could learn about 30 words/day. On that basis you'll need about 100 days to learn 3000 words. Once you have some basic vocabulary and some feel for the language after 3-4 months, buy a Kindle, install a dictionary with appropriate L2->L1 dictionary, and start reading! Harry Potter will be available in your L2. Look up the words you don't know as you read, but don't worry about trying to remember them; if they are important they will keep coming up and you will remember them naturally. Now must keep reading and listening to shows on a daily basis until you arrive at your destination. My advice, which other's would probably disagree with, is not to worry too much about speaking/writing. If you only have two hours per day, I wouldn't "waste" one hour speaking - I would spend one hour a day reading and perhaps one hour watching a TV show. Once in your L2 country, you'll have plenty of opportunities to speak, and from my experience the better your understanding of what people are saying, the easier it is to communicate. Once there you can do a local language course and really work on your spoken/written skills, and the course will be *much* easier if you have a strong background already. Edited by patrickwilken on 24 January 2014 at 9:15am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| pesahson Diglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5734 days ago 448 posts - 840 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 21 of 37 24 January 2014 at 9:48am | IP Logged | ||
I second that. 18 months to get to a level where you can use a language in a professional setting means there's not much time to waste. Also, your friend is a monoglot who never learned a foreign language. That's a different situation from someone who's on their second, third, fourth. A lot about learning languages is about learning how to do it, what works for you, how you learn the efficient way, how to make the best of native materials, what to pay attention to. It takes time to discover that on your own. Someone to guide him would be ideal, to make sure he's on the right track. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4671 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 22 of 37 24 January 2014 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | ||
Learning a language takes a lot of time and effort. So if he's saying right at the start that he doesn't have time, that's not a good start. The one thing he has on his side is that there's a good deal of motivation available: he knows that he will need this new skill in 18 months or so. That's a reasonable time frame in which to get to an acceptable conversational level, basically to a point where he can begin to make use of the free daily language instruction that he'll have available in 18 months. However, that assumes that he's willing to make the time now and put in the time now to reach that level. I presume that he wants his wife and kids to have a head start too? maybe they can all study together, watch TL TV together and so on? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4539 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 23 of 37 24 January 2014 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have to say I don't think 1-2 hours a days is going to cut it if he wants to use the language for professional reasons.
Having been in a similar situation where I have worked in two different jobs in Germany in English, it can be very difficult to learn a language once you are in the country. You are exhausted from work, and in the evenings you want to hang out with your wife and kids who want to speak to you in English. He may well have no more time to learn the language in the country than he will in the States. If he is serious about speaking the language he needs a plan that includes the family (certainly the wife) and he needs to commit to more than two hours a day (one hour is a bit of joke that suggests to me he doesn't really understand what is expected). Edited by patrickwilken on 24 January 2014 at 9:11pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7211 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 24 of 37 24 January 2014 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | ||
Also tell us if your friend is you. Edited by luke on 24 January 2014 at 10:09pm 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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