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Article on D. Pesetsky’s grammar theories | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Русский |  | |
| chokofingrz Pentaglot Senior Member England Joined 5217 days ago 241 posts - 430 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Japanese, Catalan, Luxembourgish | Message 1 of 12 10 February 2014 at 12:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Some of you might find this short article interesting.
Crackpot? Genius? Inconsequential linguistics boffin? Discuss. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5627 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 2 of 12 10 February 2014 at 1:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I do not understand his ideas. Can someone explain them to me?
PS. If I remember correcty, the weired system of the russian numerals came into being, when the dual forms merged with the genitive singualar, and the numbers three, four, five, which behaved beforehand as adjectives with the nominative plural joined the rection of the word two, while numerals biger than five, which were nouns, kept their partitive attribute in the genitive plural. So why proves this, that nouns are intrinsic genitives? And verbs and prepositions can govern all sorts of cases in Russian, not only those mentioned by the researcher. Can everybody follow me?! I am baffled. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5084 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 3 of 12 10 February 2014 at 6:56am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Пять was a noun too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5627 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 4 of 12 10 February 2014 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Yes of, course, Марк, that was wrong with five.
You see still the traces of the nominative in the adjectives: три молодые (Nom. Pl.) учителницы (Gen. Sg.) (three young female teachers) You can verify that the noun is singular by checking the accent: четыре большие страны (four big countries) Edited by Cabaire on 10 February 2014 at 1:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4272 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 5 of 12 10 February 2014 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Crackpot, its what happen when you remove the rigorous philological core from
linguistics. Sure, do let's throw aside all the corroborated, empirical, evidence on how case (in particular PIE) languages work and chase snowflakes. It's like that god awful Chomsky book which manages to somehow misunderstand root vowels and ablauting. Wow. Work in roots, not cases, even Panini knew that. As for his idea that a language may involve a few interacting systems. Well...yes, that's interesting and plausible but has received attention before. But as for the rest, does anyone even pay attention to this kind of linguistics anymore? It was never too popular with specialists but, as I said, it's lacked the rigour of philology, the interest of field linguistics, the relevancy of sociolinguistics/pragmatics and the usefulness of second language acquisition. I'll probably purchase and read the book like an idiot anyway though. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5627 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 6 of 12 10 February 2014 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
He thinks these are "free" forms, protected by a barrier of numerals. I wonder were these wild genitive nouns appear also, unhindered by verbs, prepositions or their kindsmen, other nouns. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5256 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 7 of 12 10 February 2014 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Which Chomsky book was that?
The article doesn't give me enough information to make a decision one way or the other. Perhaps one of you who read the work will be able to explain it to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5627 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 8 of 12 10 February 2014 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The case mismatch is a quite interesting issue:
эти последние (N.pl.) пять красивиых (G.pl.) столов would mean "these last five stools which are beautiful" (but there may be other ugly ones) but эти пять последных красивих столов would mean "these five stools, which are the last and beautiful too" (no others left, but they are beautiful, hurrah!) Complicated case structures happen easily in highly inflected languages. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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