Article: Students fall short on Vocabulary (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Article: Students fall short on Vocabulary
Tags: Class Learning \| Number of words \| United Kingdom (UK) \| CEFR Language Levels \| Press Article \| Vocabulary learning
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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Gemuse
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Message 9 of 319

06 April 2014 at 2:12pm | IP Logged

But presumably, French majors would be interested in learning French.
The article suggests that the french majors learn only about 1500 words in 3 years of
study, on average.
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Serpent
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Message 10 of 319

06 April 2014 at 2:19pm | IP Logged

Quote:

Conclusions

At the outset of the paper the question was posed whether the placement of the UK French exams in the CEFR was appropriate and the answer is that probably they are not. It seems to me that this is a great pity. It reinforces the stereotype that the British are bad at languages: what users of the system expect these learners to be able to do, they cannot do. Because the UK system is quite different from the predominant one of the continent, and setting such visibly lower standards, it brings the system into disrepute. It fails to give the learners credit for the standards they have achieved, only discredit for not achieving the anticipated standards. Given the time available for teaching in Schools, achievement levels are very reasonable but we, within the British system, are making claims for them which are not merited. The time available in university for learning, particularly with the year abroad, is much greater but achievement appears less impressive. Perhaps it is asking too much of today's students entering university, with a comparatively low level of French, to take advantage of study abroad. The overseas students who come to UK are, overall, at a much higher language level when they arrive. Perhaps a university is not the best place to send our learners of French if their foreign language is to develop.

Umm how about wtf?
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g-bod
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Message 11 of 319

06 April 2014 at 2:36pm | IP Logged

Quote:

We no longer routinely lecture through the medium of French, we cut down the number of books students read, to enable them to cope, and much of the work in done in translation. Graduates cannot perform in all aspects of language in an educated native-like fashion.

If students arrive at university unable to read books and follow lectures, the solution is surely more exposure and not less. The one conclusion I would draw from this is that if you are serious about learning French at a UK university, choose your institution carefully!

For anyone genuinely interested in what UK A level students are expected to be able to do in French, an exam specification and sample papers are available online from the Edexcel exam board

The A level is graded on a 6 point scale, from A* to E. There is obviously quite a difference between what an A grade student, a C grade student, and an E grade student would be able to do. This much at least should be qualified when talking about any relationship between the UK national curriculum and CEFR levels.
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chokofingrz
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Message 12 of 319

06 April 2014 at 2:44pm | IP Logged

Most UK-based undergraduate degrees in modern languages feature 1 year spent abroad and 3 at home. What they should do is just send the undergraduates abroad for the full 3 years in exchange for some foreigners. Synchronise the curriculums and test them when they come home at the end of each year.
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tastyonions
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Message 13 of 319

06 April 2014 at 3:28pm | IP Logged

On Verbling I've actually met a few UK university language students who were highly fluent speakers of Spanish and French with excellent accents. But I guess they were part of the fraction who enjoys spending spare time practicing their languages, so maybe they gave me a falsely high impression. :-)

Edited by tastyonions on 06 April 2014 at 3:28pm
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Retinend
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Message 14 of 319

06 April 2014 at 3:43pm | IP Logged

My sister managed well from ordinary schooling in French, despite not continuing from
A-levels to degree level with it. She is very clever, though.

Perhaps A-level classes are full of half-hearted people who just took French because
the GCSE was so easy.

edit: I never took french but...
...I can say the same about my other A-level subjects too. Most, and
I am not an exception, came out of those two years knowing only what we were taught in
classes. We knew no more history than the few topics chosen, and we knew no more
literature than the specific handful of books and poems we had to look at in class. In
retrospect I accepted that if I got "A"s then I could expect to be on the right track
to knowing all there is to know about these topics. No teacher ever said "the real
knowledge is in books, the best we teachers can do is revise that information and
suggest how to read critically" Maybe I was uniquely naive in this path of thought,
but if I'm not it might explain why England is so crap with languages - the only
measure of success is whether you get the top grades. If you get them, then you presume
that you don't need to work harder - in fact you get a nice present from Mum and
Dad for such good marks.

Edited by Retinend on 06 April 2014 at 3:44pm
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Serpent
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Message 15 of 319

06 April 2014 at 3:59pm | IP Logged

I'm following a UK blogger who failed to enter med school at first, and had to do an extra year of pre-college or some such. Why isn't the same done in language teaching? Surely the students should be made aware during their final years of school that they might be getting good grades now but at university this won't be enough?

As for the year abroad, the study suggests that students either quickly forget what they picked up through immersion, or hang out with expats and don't pick up much in the first place.

Edited by Serpent on 06 April 2014 at 4:02pm
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Lykeio
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Message 16 of 319

06 April 2014 at 4:16pm | IP Logged

chokofingrz wrote:

Most UK-based undergraduate degrees in modern languages feature 1
year spent abroad and 3 at home. What they should do is just send the undergraduates
abroad for the full 3 years in exchange for some foreigners. Synchronise the
curriculums and test them when they come home at the end of each year.

That's a bloody awful idea. It also completely misses what Unis ought to be aiming for.
Well I can't speak for all, only what I saw at mine (Oxford) and from what I've learnt
from my close friends (Cambridge, UCL, RHUL and York mainly). Look, there is absolutely
no point going to Uni to learn a language. You're wasting your money and time. Time and
time again it has been shown that the VAST MAJORITY of language learning comes down to
self study and exposure. You don't need uni for that. Does it help? Sure. But where uni
shines is the analytical skills and so on. My friends studying German and Russian can
obviously speak those languages, more important they're able to read complex
literature, formulate arguments and discuss the pros and cons of said arguments in
those target languages, all the while picking up valuable skills and learning about
literature, history, culture and so on. That's what uni is for when it comes to
languages, being "conversational" is a given and in the wide scheme of things not even
a goal.

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