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Viewpoint: You can damage Language by writing and speaking | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4828 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 33 of 46 23 July 2014 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There are enough barriers to spontaneous production of language (especially speaking)
in traditional language teaching, without erecting another one, i.e. the premise (false in my judgement) of this thread, i.e. that "You can damage Language by writing and speaking". We learn from our mistakes, and if we are afraid of opening our mouth or putting pen to paper (or finger to keyboard), for fear of making mistakes, then we will not progress. "I need to renovate my ID card - can you tell me where the nearest icensing office is please?" "Oh, you want to renew it - yes of course, it's down the street and ...." ... "giving sausages for children" - he might have meant "making sausages for children". But if this is a mistake, so what? Native speakers make that kind of "mistake" all the time. Is it "bored of..." (watching tv, say), or "bored with..."? "Bored of" sets my teeth on edge, but there again, I can be "fed up of TV", or "fed up with TV", so what's the big deal? Who knows? Who cares? If you are taking an exam or writing an essay or an article, then aim for perfection, and that will make you good at passing exams, writing essays and articles. If you just want to be a spontaneous and natural user of the language then just go out and use it, paying close attention of course, to how it is used around you by native speakers and writers. Correction is important, but it has to be done carefully and not overdone. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 34 of 46 23 July 2014 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The article doesn't advocate adding more barriers to traditional teaching. It advocates dumping it and having only this one barrier.
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| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7205 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 35 of 46 23 July 2014 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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How Tests Make Us Smarter
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| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4082 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 36 of 46 24 July 2014 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is incorrect? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 37 of 46 24 July 2014 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I can image certain fairly contrived circumstances where it would be correct. For instance somebody might have blamed me some time ago for not going to a certain store, and now I regret not having had the opportunity in that situation to truthfully claim that I had been in the store in question.
Or maybe we shouldn't bother about such complicated things. Maybe we should think simple thoughts which don't test the limits of our languages. Edited by Iversen on 24 July 2014 at 1:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5981 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 38 of 46 27 July 2014 at 12:25am | IP Logged | |||||
Back in the day, I learnt English (from Assimil to C1) using this Atimoon method. If my memory serves my right, it was before AJATT and Anki (the Japanese guy has now 'discovered' gap-filling sentences, wow! why am I not impressed?). All in all, I think it is good stuff. They say it's geared towards 'serious' learners (I take that to mean techies and nerds), and they say:
Key words: well, English classes To be taken with a pinch of salt: fun Well, when you learn a language well and look back, where did the bulk of it all come from? Teachers? Textbooks? Certainly not from a process of making mistakes and being corrected (personally I've never had my mistakes corrected). Serpent said:
I can't speak for everyone, but in my case it's been listening and reading (aka input). On the other hand, the context of the article is the traditional classroom setting with very little input. That's what this guy stands against, so if anyone reads it as 'if you write or speak you'll go blind', they'd be getting the wrong end of the stick. Edited by Javi on 27 July 2014 at 2:06am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 39 of 46 27 July 2014 at 1:48am | IP Logged | |||||
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Great post and I'm glad you seem to agree with me :)
As for Khatzumoto, he's always paid tribute to antimoon and doesn't claim to have invented cloze deletion. He basically adapted the antimoon methods to Japanese and invented/popularized MCD (cards with a large amount of text that you don't need to read in its entirety when doing repetitions). Edited by Serpent on 27 July 2014 at 1:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Javi Senior Member Spain Joined 5981 days ago 419 posts - 548 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 40 of 46 27 July 2014 at 2:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yeah, that's true. I used to follow Khatzumoto for the 'inspirational' posts, but I picked up all the techniques from Antimoon right from the start. Back then I couldn't have made head nor tail of his prose anyway. The Polish guys of Antimoon were more straightforward :) Edited by Javi on 27 July 2014 at 2:31am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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