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The most comfortable languages to learn | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 9 of 32 20 August 2014 at 11:58pm | IP Logged |
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Finnish
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners 7.5/10 - There's a solid pool of learning material for beginners who know English, although much of the good stuff comes from Finnish publishers rather than non-Finnish ones. Examples include "FSI Conversational Finnish", "Kuulostaa hyvältä", and "Finnish for Foreigners" (vol. 1). Beginners could also take advantage of free material online such as Supisuomea or Oneness. The reference manual of Finnish grammar by Fred Karlsson and larger Finnish-English/English-Finnish dictionaries are quite good although I have found certain Finnish dictionaries meant for Estonians, Hungarians or Germans to be even more useful than ones meant for English-speaking learners. See the Finnish Profile for more information about learning material (scroll down to "BOOKS" and "LINKS"). Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels 5/10 - The situation for those past the beginner's stage is not as bright when it comes to designated learning materials but it's still not at all dire. Learners with at least some knowledge of Finnish could increasingly shift toward using authentic material or learning material that incorporates more authentic material in addition to courses. Examples include "Finnish for Foreigners" (vol. 2), "FSI Finnish Graded Reader", and Ymmärrä suomea!. Again, the Finnish Profile has more information about learning material (scroll down to "BOOKS" and "LINKS"). Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language 6/10 - Considering that only about 5 million people worldwide speak Finnish natively, there is plenty of authentic material. Finns tend to be avid readers and there's a fairly large pool of Finnish literature available, some of which is also available for free on the internet (e.g. Digital library of the Finnish Literature Society, Finnish collection at Project Gutenberg). The national broadcaster of Finland, YLE, does offer streams for TV or radio although some links are accessible only with a Finnish IP address. See here for a taste of Finnish cinema Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad 4/10 - YLE's restriction of content for those without Finnish IP address does hurt somewhat although there's still some authentic material that outsiders can use. Finnish shops also do ship internationally although by this point shipping costs and duties might turn off all but the wealthier or extremely determined learners of Finnish. Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general 9/10 - As members of a fairly small and compact speech community, Finns are often very supportive of and touched by foreigners learning Finnish. However, Finns are very aware of how rarely their language is used outside Finland, and when combined with the widespread introduction of ESL instruction in the country, many Finns (especially those younger than 50) will have little problem switching to English when dealing with foreigners who struggle unduly with Finnish. Nevertheless, Finns are more than happy to communicate in Finnish with foreigners if the latter indeed know enough Finnish so as not to hinder communication to the point of distraction and/or wish to practice. Spread of the natives in other countries 1/10 - Like the Slovaks, Finns do travel as their time and financial means permit and in the past were part of a great wave of European immigration to the USA in the late 19th century. However they are unexceptional in the sense that as travellers, they tend to keep to themselves and/or get by in English, or most descendants of Finnish immigrants from about 100 years ago have assimilated and don't know Finnish. Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes 4/10 - Finnish has a low profile but it's hard for me to say that it's unpopular. Finnish does get a boost in its prestige by being associated with a Nordic country and part of a region that's generally perceived/stereotyped for the last 100 years or so as progressive, efficient and peaceful. Outside Finland, there are institutionalized Finnish lessons although these are a bit of a niche offering and are less likely to appear as course offerings than for languages such as Spanish, Mandarin, German, French or Arabic. Overall: 36.5/70 The mediocre score shouldn't discourage anyone from learning Finnish. It's a fascinating language and gaining basic command of it would substantially widen the intellectual horizon of a learner who has trod a well-worn path through Romance and/or Germanic languages only. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Darklight1216 Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5101 days ago 411 posts - 639 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German | Message 10 of 32 20 August 2014 at 11:59pm | IP Logged |
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French From an American's perspective
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners 10 There are plenty of resources. It is second only to Spanish in my experience. Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels 7 I find few advanced resources that are free, but they are available and the intermediate resources are more than adequate in my opinion Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language. 10, but... Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad 7 It's hard to score this one because my library has plenty of French films, but TV series are a bit harder to get a hold of affordably. Books are okay; classics are available for download freely and many modern books can be had without spending too much, but most books are frustratingly expensive for me. Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general 8 I have not had any negative experiences so far. I only gave this such a low score because I haven't travelled to a Francophone nation. Here, everyone I speak with also speaks English and is therefore likely to know exactly what I'm going through as a language learner. They might be more helpful than the average French speaker. Everyone speaks French with me once I get the ball rolling, but see below. Spread of the natives in other countries 5 If I was answering this question a year ago, may score might have been half of what it was, but I digress. As long as you are willing to go out on a limb and ask people specifically where they are from you can chat with a lot of French speaking Africans in my area of the country. If you are particular about European or Canadian French, I would say you might have some problems. All in all, the native presence not overwhelming like say Spanish or even particular impressive like Chinese or Korean but it's not terrible. The biggest issue, I think is the difficulty of identifying potential native French speakers by looks alone. Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes 10 Someone please score an African language! Edited by Darklight1216 on 21 August 2014 at 12:04am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 11 of 32 21 August 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged |
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German
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners: 10 There is quite everything you can ask for. Courses, grammars, graded readers and so on. And I would say that thanks to the sources like the Deutsche Welle website, it is much easier to learn the language cheaply or for free than French. German is one of the most popular languages to learn in whole Europe and you can ge high quality material based even in small languages, such as Czech. Lots of it. And in general, the German learning market seems to be less affected by some of the horrible modern trends like lack of proper explanations and chaotic approach to learning grammar. There is probably more than a grain of truth in the idea that Germans are very systematic and diligent. Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels 10 I am yet to reach the true intermediate/advanced stages but I can already tell I will have no trouble finding what to learn from. In Prague, German bookshelves in the shops are second only to English when it comes to amount and choice of material and the publishers expect people to want to learn German to high level for professional reasons, not just touristy phrases. The Germans realize the value of teaching people the language so that they can become economical immigrants, so the German publishers are really trying hard. The Deutsche Welle site appears to have lots of material even for people well past the beginner stages so that you can progress gradually to native material, which is actually something I had been missing for French. The only thing that may be complicated is learning a specific dialect, such as the German used in Switzerland or some parts of Austria. You may happen to be dependent on immersion in the coutry only. Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language. 9 German has one of the largest book markets in Europe, some say only second after English. There are tons to read in original or translation. When it comes to movies and tv series, Germany does have a little bit bad reputation, due to some of the well known ones such as Cobra 11. However, there are surely things worth watching and before you are ready for originals, you can choose from tons of dubbed things. Music is a little bit of trouble because many groups sing in English. The amount of cultural content in German is huge and only smaller in comparison with the superlanguages like Spanish. Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad 9 My view is heavily influenced by the area where I live. It is not that hard to get books even in the bookshops, you can easily go to Germany from here or you can use the eshops. However, I believe some of the eshops like amazon could and should apply the same delivery fees (or free delivery conditions) to the customers in the Czech Republic as to the ones in the other neighbouring countries. And I am convinced that the good availibility is extremely europe specific, that's another reason why I won't give more points. German DVDs are among the cheapest in Europe from my experience! Germany does have the Goethe Institut network which provides people in many cities with courses, libraries and cultural events. However, I must admit I was quite disappointed with their library in Prague. Not that many useful things for an intermediate learner diving into the native resources, not many dvds, I couldn't even find a section focused on YA literature and light genres etc. It might be however specific only for the library in Prague (or I may have troubles with eyesight and/or finding things, true ;-) ). I think it is caused by the idea that learners begin to read only after level B2, which is supported by this otherwise very useful list of recommendations: http://www.goethe.de/mmo/priv/8603640-STANDARD.pdf Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general 8 German is a great language to practice. Natives are proud of their language and consider it worthy of learning by others. Therefore they do not switch to English even when you are really far from perfection, as long as your low skills do not really require it. Germany is quite an open culture, used to economical migrants and you should have good conditions should you want to move there. However, you might encounter prejudices (various less serious unpleasant experiences of my friends and from time to time even medialized extreme situations of discrimination like refusal of urgent surgery in Austria and driving the patient to the borders and the nearest czech hospital for two or three hours instead or neigbours actively fighting a czech immigrant who had opened a hotel through all the possible means), especially if you are from "newer" EU countries and especially in Austria. Fortunately, such cases are getting rarer and you shouldn't have much trouble in Germany, either during a short or long stay. Experiences from immigrants in Germany, those I heard, are mostly very positive. An awesome German specific feature: Goethe Institut network supports language exchange and even finds tandem partners, at least for the Czech students but I'd bet they do this for others as well, even for people who are not currently students of the GI. Spread of the natives in other countries 8 You are surely going to meet German natives in most tourist sites. They travel a lot, they have money, they don't have a warm sea at home. They usually expect to be treated in German. Some of them are among the rudest tourists you can find in Europe but, from my experience, they have become much better during the last 5-10 years. You are surely going to meet a lot of nice people and have good practice opportunities. German students use exchange opportunities a lot, such as Erasmus. However, you are not that likely to have a collegue who had immigrated from German speaking countries, at least not in Europe. Germany is an economically strong country and the destination of immigration while Austria and Switzerland are rich countries with people valuing staying in their homeland. Neither need to emigrate for jobs or better money in general (except for a few professions which tend to consider the USA, from what I have heard). Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes 10 One of the most popular languages to learn, usually assossiated with demanding teachers, systematic approach and focus on results. Sure, you may find a bad teacher or tutor but you have lots to choose from to correct the mistake. Overall:64/70 Edited by Cavesa on 21 August 2014 at 1:46pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5533 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 32 21 August 2014 at 2:56pm | IP Logged |
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I don't give out any 10s below, on the theory that no matter how awesome French resources might be, English is almost always going to have something a bit better, thanks to the huge population, Hollywood, and its status as the current international language.
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners French: 9. Tons of great courses. The only thing missing, really, is a wide selection of graded readers for the lowest levels, analogous to the Cambridge English Readers. Egyptian: 6 (if you speak English and French). Egyptian has relatively few resources in general, but for some reason, it has some terrific beginner resources. There's a solid Assimil course with a French base, and one of the best traditional courses I've ever had the pleasure of reading. But it drops off steeply after that, and there's a deplorable lack of accessible reading material for beginners. Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels French: 8. There are some nice intermediate and advanced resources, including Assimil Business French and the upper levels of Grammaire Progressive. There's also a huge number of people online who are happy to explain weird points of French grammar, and plenty of resources aimed at native speakers. It can imagine ways in which it might be a lot better, but it's certainly sufficient. Egyptian: Unknown. I'll let you know if I ever reach those levels. Good dictionaries do exist, but they're rather miserable to use. One nice bit: Because there's a limited number of famous texts, it's often possible to find detailed critical notes for a specific confusing passage. Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language. French: 9. France has a huge publishing industry, and a pretty significant TV industry. But one of the coolest things about French is the massive number of high-quality bandes dessinées, which cover a huge variety of genres. I'm working on a list of my favorites here. Egyptian: 3, but it's awesome. There's a huge amount of material preserved somewhere in the Egyptian desert. But there's only a few hundred pages of genuinely interesting literature, and much of the rest is either repetitive or administrative. Still, it's unspeakably cool to look at pictures of temple walls and actually read them. Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad French: 7 overall (9 for almost everything, 2 for ebooks and premium TV). Amazon.fr and Izneo will cover almost any need. But when it comes to ebooks and Canal+, the French are addicted to region restrictions. Egyptian: 5. Most things are available, either in the US or in Europe, but it can be really hard and/or expensive to track them down. Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general French: 8. The French have nearly always been nice to me. But as an American, I do have a certain amount of privilege, compared to a lot of immigrants in France. It also helped that most of my speaking up through a solid B1 happened with people I know, and my few A2 conversations with strangers were in relaxed circumstances where people actually wanted to get to know me. Egyptian: N/A. Spread of the natives in other countries French: 9. The French are all over the place. :-) Egyptian: N/A. Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes French: 8. Lots of excellent tutors are available online, but the best ones tend to be expensive. French has lots of teachers and classes, and I suppose they're as good as anything else out there, but I'm not a fan of traditional classes. Fortunately, French does have absolutely top-rate immersion programs. I'd score it a 9, except for the cost. Egyptian: 2. Egyptian is moderately popular among learners (if you know where to look), and competition for academic positions is fierce. But good classes are exceptionally rare outside of graduate programs at universities. French: 58/70 (but I grade hard). Egyptian: 16/40. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 13 of 32 21 August 2014 at 6:13pm | IP Logged |
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Latin
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners: 8 There are many courses, grammars and so on. They are of good quality, usually focused on translation. Often very dry but there are exceptions like Lingua Latina-Familia Romana. There are many resources available for free on the internet as well. As you are not expected to want to speak it, you usually don't have CDs to accompany a textbook, with the exception for Assimil. However, a common trouble with audio, should you find it, is that there are many ways to pronounce Latin and many accents of the speakers. While there may be centralized rules, and quite everyone will claim to teach you those, you will hear different Latin from a french, an Italian, a German, an american or a czech. Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels 7 Well, there is quite a gap between the material aimed at beginners and the original books in Latin. And not that many resources to bridge it. There are easier literary works being translated, such as HP or the Hobbit but that is quite all. Intermediate textbooks I used at highschool were still far from taking me to the gates of reading comfortably enough to not give up. I tried to find other intermediate sources but there aren't that many, unless you study Latin at university and get recommendations and guidance, I guess. After all, Latin is not a language the language teaching industry would focus on in general. But you can still get a grammar or two and you can find both originals and translations of some works, Caesar tends to be recommended to intermediates, from what I heard. Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language. 9 Such a high grade for a dead language? Is Cavesa joking? No, I am not. There are no movies or vlogs but as far as the things you learn Latin for go, there is more than plenty to choose from. Literature of basically over one millenium of European culture, usually available for free as the authors are too long dead even for the fiercest copy"right" fighters. Latin is as well quite alive in music and not only metal. Latin is the most popular dead language in Europe, so even new things are being made, such as the Hobbit or HP translation for intermediates learners to use (or any other Latin enthousiast). There is an online newspaper in Latin, there are forums and so on. The language is pretty alive considering it's dead ;-) Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad 9 Lots and lots of content are available for free online! Lots! Paper editions can be found in university libraries, music can be explored on youtube. The only thing missing is a Latin section in bookshops. Modern translations like HP can be found on amazon. Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general X Spread of the natives in other countries X You won't find natives. However, there are groups of enthusiasts speaking latin or at least using it for internet communications with other such learners. Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes 5 It is the most popular dead laguage but many people learn it just because of being forced by the curriculum either at highschool or at university. Even at highschools, it tends to be taught by people excited about the language. Why else, if they wanted more money, they would have specialized in a large living language insted. Once you leave the main educational flow, you are unlikely to get an easy chance to join a class, should you want one, or find a tutor. But fortunately, Latin is a good language for self teaching, the more as you don't need to worry much about some of the skills necessry for living languages. Overall: 38/50 Really, as far as the dead languages go, Latin is probably the most comfortable choice you can make. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 5060 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 14 of 32 21 August 2014 at 6:23pm | IP Logged |
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Mandarin
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners: 9 Good online dictionaries are freely available. Courses are available from just about every major provider imaginable, as well as many usable amateur courses. Only not 10 because 10 is the most, and English has more. Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels: 9 You can easily find online articles with audio and transcription, subtitled videos, and intermediate coursebooks. Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language: 7 There is a large absolute number of books and movies in Mandarin, however the score is decreased a bit because the good movies are hidden among many bad ones, and the books tend not to be very accessible to a foreign audience (for example, Westerners read few books translated from Mandarin.) Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad: 9 Chinese are everywhere, and in most cities it shouldn't be hard to find physical books without having them shipped from abroad. Video sharing sites (e.g. Youtube and the Chinese Youku) have plenty of videos and the Chinese national TV is available online. Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general: 6 Chinese people are very friendly and willing to speak Mandarin with foreigners, if only because most of them don't speak English well. However, they are also not very accustomed to foreigners, and even less so to foreigners speaking Mandarin. Foreigners often report being ignored, discriminated against, or assumed not to understand. Spread of the natives in other countries:10 The Chinese are all over the place and continuing to spread. New waves of Chinese emigration are increasing the prominence of Mandarin abroad relative to the other Chinese languages like Cantonese and Hokkien. Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes:10 Fellow learners and classes are widely available almost everywhere. Being the most widely spoken native language in the world, there is an absolute glut of teachers. Mandarin/English, or even Mandarin/French, Mandarin/Spanish, Mandarin/Japanese, Mandarin/Korean exchanges are super easy to find. Total: 60/70 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 4100 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 15 of 32 21 August 2014 at 6:46pm | IP Logged |
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Breton
Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for beginners: 6 If you speak French, there a few relatively easy to find high quality resources for beginners (especially in a taught group setting), and a fair amount of somewhat lower-quality resources. If you don't speak French, perhaps you speak English, in which case you have essentially one course and one grammar to choose from. Amount and quality of learner aimed resources for intermediate and advanced levels: 1-3 If you are hoping to find course material for intermediate and advanced learners you are mostly out of luck. I have seen a CD for sale for improving your understanding of the Vannes dialect, if you're a KLT learner, but that's about it. If "learner aimed resources" includes books written in simplified language, books of idioms (including correct use of prepositions) and books of expressions, then the higher score is probably warranted. Amount of books, movies etc. originally in the language: 5 There are a decent amount of books produced in Breton, but the first ever full-length fictional film in Breton was released last year. There are a lot of radio programmes, though, and a little bit of TV. Availability of native books, movies etc. from abroad: 2 I live where the language is spoken, but I understand that it's very difficult to get a hold of Breton books. I have been contacted by learners abroad asking me to buy books (paid in advance of course) for them and ship them. Attitude of natives towards learners and foreigners in general: 8 While I have encountered a fair bit of elitism in French about Breton, in Breton no one has ever said a bad word about learners. People are especially happy to have foreigners learning the language. Just this morning all of the Breton groups on Facebook seemed to be very excited about an article, which ran in two local newspapers, about two Japanese girls with an interest in Celtic languages who came to Brittany to do a Breton course. Spread of the natives in other countries: 1 There are a few thousand speakers in Quebec, but otherwise you're quite unlikely to run into native brittophones outside of France (it's not impossible though - there are brittophones everywhere, just not very many of them). Popularity among learners and availability of good quality tutors, teachers or even classes: 2-8 Locally, for me, the higher number, but I live 20 kilometres from "the capital of the Breton language". Elsewhere in France, it's going to be very difficult to find teachers, and if you live outside of France it's very difficult. Speaking of the internet, there's no Breton on italki, for example, and most exchange or correction websites either have people who clearly erroneously list Breton as a language or only have one or two members who speak Breton, who also haven't logged in for 2-3 years. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5010 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 16 of 32 21 August 2014 at 6:51pm | IP Logged |
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I'd like to thank everyone participating so far and please, keep those awesome reviews coming. I hope you agree it is very beneficial to see even the differences between opportunities for people learning the same language from different places as I think those are enormous at times. It may be useful to know as not every learner is a native English speaker living in New York or London, which is what most of the generalized articles on the topic appear to believe. This is probably everything from me for now but I hope I'll be able to review another language for the collection in a few months or half a year ;-). It's just up to you all now. :-)
Thanks! You're awesome! Edited by Cavesa on 21 August 2014 at 6:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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