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Moving from B2 to C2 | ||
Tags: Advanced Level | Learning Strategy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5012 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 113 of 177 22 February 2015 at 11:39am | IP Logged | ||
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i may have overlooked a word in sallards post in the middle of the night, sorry about
that. And I find it funny to read offences about my writing style from someone making the same mistakes and a few of his own, that he is being reproached in most threads by more people than just me. ;-) I think some of the typical argumentative strategies of sallard's (such as offending an opponent when he runs out of arguments and cannot just let it go without "winning") may be a good lead to finding out he needs to change something in his life and attitude. Not my problem though, I just came here to discuss the topic. i think my point was made, just as those of others and there is no reason for me to go on. to the OP, get any way of practice eyou find helpful. really, a tutor can be helpful but it can be a huge waste of money as well. i am not bashing teachers, i am just presenting years of experience showing that most teachers and tutors are just not worth the money, that's all. there is no reason to glorify them as a miraculous solution to your learning problems, many are not people who take high quality teaching as their lives' mission and something awesome to do. No, they just attended a very easy second rate degree at university compared to the technical ones, or none at all, and got a job where you can blame the students for your failures. It's that easy. Some are not to blame of such attitude and they are not lazy, they try their best but they are just not talented in teaching or intelligent enough or whatever else. Yes, there are good quality tutors out there, who are more than worth it, but you need to pick them carefully, spend some time searching and try them out. I just recommend caution. Don't hesitate to get rid of a tutor that doesn't suit you and speak out when there is something that could be changed to your benefit. There are alternatives, such as the writing communities. I am glad I am obviously not the only one in the thread with positive experience with such sources, I would appreciate a lot tips on such sites in my target languages. While the fossilized mistakes may be created in various ways, and that would be a very good topic for a new discussion I'd be eager to read as I've been thinking about the matter a lot lately, the advanced stage between B2-C2 is exactly the moment to get rid of them. Because a stupid mistake in something you should definitely know degrades your output much more than avoiding, or making mistake in, something perceived as complicated and advanced. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5133 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 114 of 177 22 February 2015 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | ||
Cavesa, with all due respect, your last few "contributions" to the discussion sound terribly arrogant and self-righteous. I find it really off-putting and I would hope that you find back to a more civilized way of expressing your views. Edited by Bakunin on 22 February 2015 at 12:45pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5433 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 115 of 177 22 February 2015 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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As tempted as I am to write something nasty, I feel this will only do disservice to the thread and
prolong a tiresome and noxious diatribe. Let's move on, shall we. To get back to the original question, one idea that came to mind was that of taking an online high level class in the target language. The key element here of course is that the medium of instruction is the target language. For example, thanks to a tip from a HTLALer I have just signed up for an Edx course called Advanced Spanish Language and Culture. Will I like this? Will it be useful? Will I like the instructor? Who knows. But I like the concept of being part of a structured and disciplined learning framework. And it's free for those who do not need the formal credit. Wouldn't it be great to have something similar aimed specifically at CEFR exam preparation? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 116 of 177 22 February 2015 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||
Books and cleverness. There's more to life than books and cleverness. I don't remember the exact quote, but even Hermione recognised that ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4536 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 117 of 177 22 February 2015 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | ||
Arrogance and self-righteousness seem to come in all sorts of forms on HTLAL. I'd recommend if people have problems with posts/posters, rather than creating an off-topic meta-discussion on a thread, they contact the moderators directly. That's what the 'report' button is for. Edited by patrickwilken on 22 February 2015 at 2:07pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6600 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 118 of 177 22 February 2015 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | ||
Bravery and friendship. But that's why she's a Gryffindor, not a Ravenclaw :P 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| victorhart Bilingual Tetraglot Groupie United States mandarinexperiment.o Joined 3710 days ago 66 posts - 155 votes Speaks: English*, Portuguese*, Spanish, French Studies: Mandarin | Message 119 of 177 22 February 2015 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've read many of the posts on this interesting thread, though I confess not all 15
pages. For what it's worth, I have a slightly different way of looking at the question. To become proficient in a language (C-level or beyond), you just need to use it. A LOT. There is an intangible element that is necessary, however, that many people do not exhibit and that I would like in the future to analyze and be able to describe better. It has to do with WANTING sufficiently to improve, to be willing to correct mistakes and change habits. It also has to do with a certain type of interest or attention to language, that some people may have grown up with, and others many need to cultivate. In addition to this intangible attitudinal element, whom and what you interact with in the language is of great importance. You should do a lot of reading of authentic texts written by native speakers, preferably of very high quality, such as literature by celebrated authors. You must listen to native speakers--preferably well educated ones if you want semantic richness and grammatical accuracy (in the standard version of the language, since I fully believe in the value and acceptability of alternate grammars). Lastly, you need to converse with native speakers--again, those who speak with the grammatical accuracy and semantic breadth you would like to acquire. It makes a huge difference if those native speakers are willing to correct you on a regular basis. Of course, you have to be desirous of those corrections and take them in a positive way. That's where the whole "tutor" question that everyone has been arguing about comes in. In my mind, it's rather simple. No, you don't need a tutor, if you have other native speakers who fit the description I gave above and who are willing to engage you in conversation (and correct you) regularly. Yes, a tutor can be extremely helpful if you don't already have that in abundance. The person does NOT need to be a professional tutor in the sense of having a background in linguistics, pedagogy, or anything of the sort. But he or she should be a professional in the sense of possessing a series of skills--again, being well educated (if that's the type of language you're after), a good listener, personable, willing to correct, patient, committed, punctual, and so forth. Did I mention he or she must be a native speaker? That's it: you've got to want it, you've got to pay close attention to the language, you've got to be willing to be corrected and change bad habits, you have to put in hundreds or perhaps thousands of hours, you need high-quality texts, audio, and interlocutors, which can be professional tutors or not. If you do all that, you can not only get to C2, but eventually near-native level, if you so desire. 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arthaey Groupie United States arthaey.com Joined 5049 days ago 97 posts - 155 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 120 of 177 22 February 2015 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | ||
That's the long and short of it, I think. No magic bullet. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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