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Assimil versus US language programs | ||
Tags: Learner type | Platiquemos | Pimsleur | Reading | Language Program | FSI | Assimil | Accent | Book | Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 137 of 184 16 February 2006 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | ||
I thought you were looking for a specialized complete course of some kind, but if a reference grammar is all you need, they surely exist, at various levels of sophisication and detail. I listed what I found in English, through a rather casual online search and a couple of bookstore visits, in this thread, but it could be that an Italian grammar comparing it to French would serve your needs even better - hopefully, someone here will be able to recommend one to you. Edited by frenkeld on 20 February 2006 at 1:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eidolio Bilingual Octoglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 6864 days ago 159 posts - 164 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, French, English, Latin, Ancient Greek, Italian, Greek | Message 138 of 184 17 February 2006 at 9:17am | IP Logged | ||
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the more specialized the better, but any course that includes "real" grammar (and explains it where possible) will do...
It doesn't have to be a grammar that compares Italian with French or English, I prefer to make the comparisons myself (I compare with Latin, ancient Greek, Indo-European and French so I think it's quite hard to find something that offers all of this ;-) ) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 139 of 184 17 February 2006 at 9:55am | IP Logged | ||
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I did not mean comparative grammar, but merely what language the grammar was written in - the examples in Italian may translate better into French than English, so you wouldn't have an extra layer of explanations for things that would look quirky to English, but not French speakers.
I have to admit to a degree of obtuseness, but I am still not sure what exactly you are looking for - would a reference grammar (in English) do, or are you only looking for a course-style textbook? And if it is reference grammar, at what level - advanced/exhaustive, or intermedate for now? Edited by frenkeld on 17 February 2006 at 10:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eidolio Bilingual Octoglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 6864 days ago 159 posts - 164 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, French, English, Latin, Ancient Greek, Italian, Greek | Message 140 of 184 17 February 2006 at 10:44am | IP Logged | ||
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I'd like to have both :-) A course-style textbook that includes all kinds of exercices and dialogues but also a lot of grammar, plus a complete exhaustive grammar in which I can look up any possible construction.
In short, something like Assimil but with more exercices and way more grammar plus a real grammarbook. I'm quite difficult, I know ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 141 of 184 18 February 2006 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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You are fine - I've owned more than one book myself on occasion.
For advanced grammar reference, in English, the choices do not seem infinite, making it easy to make "recommendations" (more like list just about all that are available and in print). One is Reference Grammar of Modern Italian by Maiden and Robustelli. It appears to be part of a series of grammars, including those for Spanish (by Butt & Benjamin), French, and German, possibly more. I have the Spanish one, which is widely known, and it is definitely exhaustive - they try to answer just about any question one may have about Spanish grammar. The Italian one, from reader reviews on Amazon, and the spirit of the series, seems similar. My guess is that buying it is a no-brainer, and it's not very expensive. Another known grammar series, from Routledge, includes Modern Italian Grammar: A Practical Guide by Anna Proudfoot (there is an accompanying workbook). I did not like the format of the Spanish Routledge grammar - the function-based chapters seemed confusing and looked like they would make the book hard to use as reference, but this may be a matter of taste. The above two are the "usual suspects", but I ran into one more, The Italian Language Today by Anna and Giulio Lepschy, and ended up ordering it. It seems idiosyncratic, but I was taken in by the comparison to Ramsey's classic Spanish grammar made by one of the reviewers on Amazon - I will know how useful it actually is when it arrives. (I am a bit surprised that even someone with your language-learning experience would not want to start with something less exhaustive, but you must know what works for you.) Now, textoobooks of all stripes are more numerous, even for Italian, so one can't list them all, or recommend one. For a straightforward no-frills workbook style introduction to the language (1100 words, "most grammatical structures"), a textbook by Edoardo Lèbano looks pretty good. However, it is ulikely to get one to the intermediate level. One textbook I ran into by chance that claims to do exactly that is Routledge Intensive Italian Course, also by Anna Proudfoot. (There is an accompanying workbook as well.) You can learn more about the course at their website: www.routledge.com/intensive/italian, where you can also find information about the accompanying recordings, which you may not really need after Assimil. I have not seen this book either, but it looks potentially interesting. There are other choices for textbooks, of course - this is mostly to illustrate that the more traditional approach to learning, which you seem to favor, is very much an option. Edited by frenkeld on 19 February 2006 at 7:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 142 of 184 18 February 2006 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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What are your experiences on Assimil versus FSI for preventing fossilized non-native grammatical patterns? I work with several people who are bright, college educated, and have been in the US for many years (some over 25 years). Many of them have what is sometimes called "fossilized" speech patterns. I.E. grammatical patterns more similar to their native tongue that native English speakers wouldn't use.
It seems to me, that the pattern drills of FSI would help one not to develop these non-native speaking patterns. Some in the field lament the communicative approach for this problem. Edited by luke on 19 February 2006 at 8:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Eidolio Bilingual Octoglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 6864 days ago 159 posts - 164 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, French, English, Latin, Ancient Greek, Italian, Greek | Message 143 of 184 19 February 2006 at 7:20am | IP Logged | ||
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thanks a lot frenkeld!!!
Of course it's okay to start with something less exhaustive, but I haven't got much money so I like to purchase the most exhaustive things from the beginning. Otherwise you have to spend money on new books every time you get to a higher level... It will cost me less and I can cope with it I think. I already know Latin and French and that helps a lot, and I've got assimil for the basic stuff. (if I wanted to learn Mandarin or Russian I'd think twice of course). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6946 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 144 of 184 19 February 2006 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | ||
Have you done both parts of Assimil Italian or just the first one? Either way, for the part(s) you've covered, do you have a rough sense of how many words get covered in each? Also, to judge somehow what they do with the grammar, which verb forms are not yet covered in part I?, part II? Edited by frenkeld on 19 February 2006 at 1:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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