I disagree with difficulty ratings (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

I disagree with difficulty ratings
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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lengua
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Message 17 of 54

09 October 2006 at 3:36pm | IP Logged

administrator wrote:

Farsi is the most commonly used name of Persian in contemporary English, if you have an issue with that go take it up with the native English speakers, not with me.

I would have to disagree. In my experience, Persian is the more common way of referring to the language in English. In addition, when people are corrected on the nomenclature, it's usually for calling Persian Farsi, and not for calling Farsi Persian. Here's a stub on wikipedia about it.

Quote:

Nomenclature

Persian, the more widely used name of the language in English, is an Anglicized form derived from Latin *Persianus < Latin Persia < Greek Persis, a Hellenized form of Old Persian Parsa. Farsi is the Arabicized form of Parsi, due to a lack of the /p/ phoneme in Standard Arabic. Native Persian speakers typically call it “Fārsi” in modern usage. In English, however, the language has historically been known as "Persian". After the 1979 Iranian Revolution many Iranians migrating to the West continued to use 'Farsi' to identify their language in English and the word became commonplace in English-speaking countries.

The Academy of Persian Language and Literature has argued in an official pronouncement [6] that the name "Persian" is more appropriate, as it has the longer tradition in the western languages and better expresses the role of the language as a mark of cultural and national continuity. On the other hand, "Farsi" is also encountered frequently in the linguistic literature as a name for the language, used both by Iranian and by foreign authors.[2]

The international language encoding standard ISO 639-1 uses the code "fa", as its coding system is based on the local names. The more detailed draft ISO 639-3 uses the name "Persian" (code "fas") for the larger unit ("macrolanguage") spoken across Iran and Afghanistan, but "Eastern Farsi" and "Western Farsi" for two of its subdivisions (roughly coinciding with the varieties in Afghanistan and those in Iran, respectively) [7]. Ethnologue, in turn, includes "Farsi, Eastern" and "Farsi, Western" as two separate entries and lists "Persian" and "Parsi" as alternative names for each, besides "Irani" for the western and "Dari" for the eastern form ([8], [9]).

A similar terminology, but with even more subdivisions, is also adopted by the "Linguist List", where "Persian" appears as a subgrouping under "Southwest Western Iranian" ([10]). Currently, all International broadcasting radios with services in the Persian language (e.g. VOA, BBC, DW, RFE/RL, etc.) use "Persian Service", in lieu of "Farsi Service." This is also the case for the American Association of Teachers of Persian, The Centre for Promotion of Persian Language and Literature, and many of the leading scholars of Persian language. [11] [12]

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frenkeld
Diglot
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Message 18 of 54

09 October 2006 at 3:55pm | IP Logged

Alijsh wrote:

So saying that Urdu and Hindi are quite alike is a sheer nonsense.

Quite respectable Hindi textbooks suggest that Hindi and Urdu are very similar in their daily vocabulary, but diverge in the more formal and literary vocabulary.

Will a Pakistani have difficulty understanding an Indian movie?

Edited by frenkeld on 09 October 2006 at 4:11pm
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kronos77
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Message 19 of 54

10 October 2006 at 12:15am | IP Logged

Among experts in Persian, Persian may be the more commonly used word,
but the term I hear the most is Farsi. It may not be correct, but it is
commonly used, in my experience.
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Captlemuel
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Message 20 of 54

10 October 2006 at 12:24am | IP Logged

For some it may not be difficult to learn to speak and write in English that is for the most part intelligible, or that even approaches perspicuity; but Really Good English usage is Not so easily achieved as some people think it is, especially sustained good usage.
English not being highly inflected, is a very ‘elastic’ and flexible language; although there are certain prescribed functions for many English words, and rules governing their placement in sentences, an English sentence can begin or end with any part of speech, and any word can be used in the capacity of any part of speech (in some cases the use of certain words in certain capacities would be unusual). English sentences themselves show these statements to be true. A grammatical sentence may be one word in length, with an understood subject, or it may appropriately be three hundred words long, or longer, with dozens of clauses consisting of common structural words serving in many different capacities, and content words playing one role here in one clause, and another there in another clause. Its elasticity and flexibility makes extraordinary color possible, and can make for great energy, among other things; but it also promotes careless handling and an obliviousness to logic.

What makes the sentence below absurd? The difficulty involved in figuring out what the problem with it is, is one cactus if you’re a native speaker, two cacti if you’re not.

‘Socrates, who was at one time a diligent scientific observer, then turned his back upon Nature to concentrate it upon Man.’

Edited by Captlemuel on 22 February 2007 at 1:13am
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fanatic
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Message 21 of 54

10 October 2006 at 12:31am | IP Logged

I just uploaded the Transparent Language program onto my computer and it calls the language Farsi. I had breakfast with an Iranian engineer in Singapore and he called his language Farsi.

I understand the arguments but I have difficulty being outraged by people using the incorrect name for the language. Does it matter?

Both Persian and Farsi seem to be correct so far as common usage is concerned. I have a CD of lectures and it is noted that some lectures are given in Farsi. I have heard the term Farsi more often than Persian as the name of the language.

My wife accuses me of being pedantic (and I think I am in many respects) but I don't see a problem with using either term for the name of the language. I like to use the correct word to make the meaning clear. Like Nero Wolfe, I don't think imply and infer are interchangeable. Nor do I like to hear people say less when they mean fewer. But I don't get upset about it.
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fanatic
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Message 22 of 54

10 October 2006 at 12:36am | IP Logged

Captlemuel wrote:

What makes the sentence below absurd? The difficulty involved in figuring out what the problem with it is, is one cactus if you’re a native speaker, two cacti if you’re not.

‘Socrates, who was at one time a diligent scientific observer, then turned his back upon Nature to concentrate it upon Man.’

The sentence states that Socrates concentrated his back upon man. The word "it" should be deleted to make sense.
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Captlemuel
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Message 23 of 54

10 October 2006 at 12:38am | IP Logged

Bravo, fanatic!
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Captlemuel
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Message 24 of 54

10 October 2006 at 12:44am | IP Logged

(I 'erased' this post because it was political, and perhaps offensive to some people.)

Edited by Captlemuel on 02 February 2007 at 1:00am

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