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Esperanto: 6 Week Challenge | ||
Tags: 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | Esperanto | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 9 of 24 17 April 2007 at 2:01am | IP Logged | ||
Tabelvortoj ("table words") is the name for words like kiu, tiu, kio, tio etc. because they are not derived from any other language but rather created according to a logical scheme. They can be arranged in a table according to first letter (which determines whether it's a question word, demonstrative word, word with some-, every- or no-) and ending (which determines whether it's about a thing, a person, a time, a place, etc.). You can find the complete table with English translations of each word at http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~wies301/Tabelvortoj.html. The only words missing are the ones you get when adding -n for Accusative or direction or -j for plural. Some of these words are not very common, for example "nenial", and you may get confused if you try to learn every word as a word. In order to avoid confusion, learn the meaning of the first letters and the endings only. Very soon you'll have no problem distinguishing "kio", "kiu", "kiel" and the like, and the rest will come naturally with practise - this way you will be able to confidently know the meaning of "nenial" when it comes up eventually. If the table feels too overwhelming right now, start small and learn just the -iu and -io series for a start for example, then expand from there. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Rmss Triglot Senior Member Spain spanish-only.coRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6566 days ago 234 posts - 248 votes 3 sounds Speaks: Dutch*, English, Spanish Studies: Portuguese | Message 10 of 24 17 April 2007 at 2:54am | IP Logged | ||
Thank you! This way it's very easy indeed. Hopefully it sticks in my memory. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| awake Senior Member United States Joined 6638 days ago 406 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 11 of 24 17 April 2007 at 7:38am | IP Logged | ||
I found it useful to translate the table-words literally in my head rather than using their direct equivalents. In other words, when I would see Kiam, I wouldn't even try to think "when" (which would be the most direct equivalent). Instead, I'd use the scheme from the table and think "what + time" Thus, when I'd see something like Kiam ni iru? (when should we go?) Id translate it in my head to "what time should we go?" After a bit of practice, I no longer had to translate it in my head, I'd just have it in esperanto. The odd thing is, after I stopped translating in my head and understood it directly, I found that when I do need to translate Esperanto into english, i now think in the more direct terms. So now If I need to translate kiam, I think "When" instead of "what time." My brain just sorted it out once I learned it. The advantage of this approach (using the pattern in the table), is that I don't have any trouble remembering the seldom used Table-words. Because I have internalized the pattern of the table, it's just natural. I literally just learned the pattern and drilled with flash cards a bit for a few days, and then I had it down. ------------ There is one aspect of the table words that does seem difficult to a lot of people at first, however, the difference between kio and kiu. Kio roughly translates as "what" or "what thing" Kio estas hundo? = What is a dog? Hundo estas besto = A dog is an animal. Kio pretty much stands by itself. Also, It takes the -n ending when it's an object. Vi faras kion? You are doing what (thing)? or, inverting the word order, you get the much more common way of saying it. kion vi faras? What (thing) are you doing? ----------------------------------- kiu on the other hand acts more like a pseudo adjective. It's always tied to a noun (even if that noun is understood). It translates roughly as "which." Kiu hundo mordis lin? which dog bit him? La nigra hundo. The black dog. Now, here (in my opinion) is what makes the distinction between kio and kiu tricky. Consider the phrase, kiu homo = which person? If we said that all the time, keeping kio and kiu straight would be much easier. However, although we can say kiu homo, often we just drop the word homo. So, kiu can mean "which" or "which person" or (when talking about non humans) "which one." If you were talking about dogs: kiu mangxis gxin? = Which one (of the dogs) ate it? if you were talking about people kiu mangxis gxin? = who (which person) ate it? Contrast that with kio mangxis gxin? = What ate it? (was it a dog? a person? a snake? :) Anyway, hope that's clarifying rather than confusing. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6584 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 12 of 24 17 April 2007 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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Okay, quick question: what does the am- prefix mean? Sentence: "Tio ne estas amdeklaro, tio estas simpla fakto." For a minute I thought it was a typo (had it said "maldeklaro", I'd have understood), especially since I can't find it on any affix lists, but the guy quite clearly says "amdeklaro" on the tape.
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| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 13 of 24 17 April 2007 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||
When you can't find something among the affixes and the prepositions, it must be another full Esperanto word. Experiment with the possible main endings -o, -a, -i and -e and you'll probably be able to guess that "amdeklaro" is a compound noun consisting of "amo" and "deklaro". Long form: deklaro de amo. Declaration of love. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| awake Senior Member United States Joined 6638 days ago 406 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 14 of 24 17 April 2007 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Indeed, Esperanto is very rich in compound nouns. As a rule, you can construct them any time it makes sense, but stylistically (and in practical terms) people try to avoid overdoing that.
They are built with the last part of the noun being the main part.That is birdkanto = bird song but kantbirdo = song bird.You could also break these up into an adjective + a noun -- birda kanto = bird song Generally the o of the first noun in a compound noun is dropped, but if the combination is easier to pronounce or understand, you're allowed to keep it in. birdkanto = birdokanto. I actually prefer the latter construction and tend to use it more than the former.
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| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6584 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 15 of 24 18 April 2007 at 12:29am | IP Logged | ||
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Ah, I see, thanks. In this case, it might have been better, seeing as it's a beginner's text and this is the first compound word that appears, to use some longer word, or at least keep the -o. I never made the connection am - amo.
However, I do love this text. "Gerda Malaperis", it's on Lernu. I haven't needed to even glance on the sixteen grammar rules, since the text introduces the grammar gradually and in context. I can figure out for myself "ah, that must be the imperfect ending". And the dialogues are much more fun than usual (that guy in the corner is putting something in that girl's glass when she's not looking). Good stuff. There should be more instructive texts like this, though the approach might be more difficult with irregular languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 16 of 24 18 April 2007 at 2:09am | IP Logged | ||
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:-) Gerda malaperis is a course aimed at intermediate learners. I guess if you like being thrown into cold water rather than get eased into it, you can also use it as a first text. By the way, this story has been turned into a DVD.
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