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LearningSpanishLikeCrazy (LSLC) w/ FSI | ||
Tags: Fake Reviews | LSLC | Platiquemos | Pimsleur | Reading | FSI | Book | Grammar | English | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7404 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes  12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 113 of 193 01 May 2005 at 12:18pm | IP Logged |
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This thread is not going to be deleted.
If we all agree that the question of the Amazon reviews (fake or legitimate) is settled, we can start a new thread about the intrisic value of LearningSpanishLikeCrazy with a link to this thread about its marketing. I don't think there is a need to lock it either. M. Jackson is welcome to address the concerns that have been expressed in recent posts in this thread. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7235 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 114 of 193 01 May 2005 at 3:26pm | IP Logged |
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I am not so naive as to believe in pure good and pure evil. I think Mr. Jackson is simply human like the rest of us. I really can't believe that Mr. Jackson started his review campaign in an effort to really hurt anyone.
While I don't condone the practice, false testimonials are a fact in advertising. Everyone knows it. Everyone expects it. It's wrong, but it's true. When Mr. Jackson first started creating his reviews on Amazon, I'm sure that's all it was to him, a few more false testimonials. He probably didn't consider that placing those testimonials on Amazon would be especially deceiving because people trust Amazon more than the average small website. And I'm sure that he didn't think about Ms. Tipton's family or about Mr. Casteel's medical bills. It was probably so easy. Just write a few simple reviews that plug the product and give them to friends and family members to post. Maybe there was a little voice telling him it was wrong, but I doubt that voice could explain all the reasons. I think we've outlined those reasons in painful detail. We're taking over the job of that little voice. Unfortunately it's a little late. But it's not too late. Mr. Jackson can do what's right and we can forgive and forget. It would be nice if it were that simple, but it's not. By apologizing and deleting the reviews, Mr. Jackson would be admitting his guilt. That's a big step. And we're asking him to trust us that we will indeed forgive and forget. We must offer something. At the very least we can offer to hide this thread and let him make a fresh start. Edited by heartburn on 01 May 2005 at 3:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7235 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 115 of 193 01 May 2005 at 4:02pm | IP Logged |
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On the other hand, we could make this topic sticky in the event that he refuses.
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| crylant Groupie United States cjrylantwealthmanage Joined 7225 days ago 85 posts - 85 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 116 of 193 01 May 2005 at 7:14pm | IP Logged |
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Those who belive Mr. Jackson would ever admit the Amazon reviews were false, are being a bit too idealistic. If I make speak in generalities, Mr. Jackson is a lawyer. Lawyers think along the lines of evidence, and if there is sufficient evidence to prove something or not. Unfortunately right and wrong, morals, and honesty, are not the primary concerns of a lawyer. Those issues are not what their job is about.
In no way am I impling that Mr. Jackson is a lier or immoral (as so many others boldly have) but look at it from the view of an attorney. He would have to be a fool to admit something when there would be no evidence to prove his guilt other than his own admission. I realize many members here will read this and want to show me all of the proof that has been posted previously. Before you do this, understand I have previously posted that I BELIEVE the Amazon reviews were less than objective. However, believing and proving are two different things. I do not think he will ever admit to what forum members are asking for. Mr. Jackson has threatened litigation against Mr. Casteel, (which I disagree with). I don't think admitting he falsified the Amazon reviews or encouraged others to do so would help his case if he decided to move forward with that. For the sake of argument, lets say he did admit it. I do not think deleting any of this information posted here is beneficial to the people who come here seeking objective information about products. There is a lot of information here that someone can take in and decide if he or she wants to purchase Mr. Jackson's product. Removing the information would be a bit misleading to future readers because it would be like nothing ever happened. Well something did happen, and reviews were removed from Amazon for a reason. This information should be availble to consumers because it showes how the business operates. It personally does not bother me because I think every type of marketing is a lie until proven otherwise. Others do not have such a pessimistic attitude as I do. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7235 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 117 of 193 01 May 2005 at 7:46pm | IP Logged |
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Crylant, I think you may be underestimating our position. We have almost 1MB of evidence. That evidence includes the full names and cities of four reviewers. Of those four reviewers we know the occupation of one. And we can be pretty sure that Amazon.com has personal and network information for every reviewer. The only thing missing is a connection between Mr. Jackson and the reviewers. Someone adept at finding information should be able to make that connection.
And I don't think that hiding this thread would be misleading. If Mr. Jackson decides to mend his ways, his past is no longer an issue. That's what a fresh start is all about. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| crylant Groupie United States cjrylantwealthmanage Joined 7225 days ago 85 posts - 85 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 118 of 193 02 May 2005 at 1:26am | IP Logged |
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This thread is so exciting. It is like a soap opera. I can't wait to check it each day to see what will happened next. We are all waitin patiently to see what or if Mr. Jackson will say next.
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| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7404 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 119 of 193 02 May 2005 at 5:13am | IP Logged |
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Please let us not discuss anymore what could be or should be the 'right' reaction and let's wait for additional feedback from both Amazon.com and Mr Jackson. This thread will not be hidden or deleted as it contains valuable information and gives a fresh look at what we must rely on when shopping online, for this product or another.
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| Platiquemos Hexaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Panama platiquemos-letstalk Joined 7190 days ago 126 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish | Message 120 of 193 02 May 2005 at 10:07am | IP Logged |
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This post will cover a couple of points, and may be a bit long.
First, It makes me very sad that Crylant apparently believes that "everybody does it". No, not even all lawyers are that way. Believe it or not, I know some honest lawyers who have turned down potentially lucrative cases simply because they believed it was wrong, morally and ethically. Of course, the litigants had little trouble finding a lawyer who meets crylant's description. Also, I don't do things like that. I have a sense of ethics, morality and honor that doesn't allow me to play games with the truth. Someone posted about "underground marketing", using the example of having somebody play an electronic game in a locale frequented by those who play such games, and then engaging them in conversation about how cool the game they're pushing is. While a bit sleazy, I don't see anything terribly wrong with that. I've been searching my tiny brain for an analogy to what PJackson did, and think I've come up with one. Imagine stationing somebody at the entrance to a Ford dealership, whose job it is to buttonhole people and say something like: "Yeah, Fords are pretty good cars. But I just bought a Chevrolet that is just so much better than a Ford that I felt compelled to tell you about it. I just happen to have a card here for a Chevy dealership just down the street. Everybody in the know is buying Chevies, and I don't want you to be left out." To me that approaches what Jackson did. By the way, crylant, there is such a thing as circumstancial evidence which in the PJackson case is overwhelming. I doubt we'll hear again from PJackson--getting caught on the second to prewritten eulogies on clickbank was probably a bit to much for even he to shrug off. But I do hope we hear from him. Every message he sends reveals a little more about the kind of person he is. Edited by Malcolm on 02 May 2005 at 3:23pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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