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On the use of highbrow words in English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7376 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes  12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 1 of 11 14 July 2005 at 11:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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I am always amazed at the social importance of 'highbrow' words in the English language. Native speakers of English would often go out of their way to use a rare or difficult word. It seems to confer an immediate aura of high social status or intellectualness to the speaker.
This gives rise to an amusing problem for French speakers, as many rarer and thus highbrow words of the English language come from French. They often are not very rare in French. Thus, an English speaker would would try to impress you with a word like risqué or rapport would probably not succeed if you speak French. A writer friend of mine, British, once mentionned the word 'xenophobic' with consumate self-awareness, certain I would not know such a word in English and expecting me to ask him what that meant. I immediately told him, Yes, xenophobic, the 4-syllable word from French. This became a private joke among us when I repaid him in kind with words like 'hecatomb', with which he was not overly familiar in English although is fairly common in French. I don't play those games of trying to impress in English with fancy words any more than I need to. It is often tricky to use a highbrow word in English as a foreigner since any native speaker who would not know the word would immediately discount it as 'a mistake' or as 'a word that nobody uses', which would not happen if you were a native speaker. I wonder if other people have had similar experiences. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Katia Groupie United States Joined 7080 days ago 42 posts - 43 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 2 of 11 14 July 2005 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Acutally, I found the phenomena you are speaking of more true for uneducated American's who try to sound educated by using "big words". It is the butt of jokes for many comedy shows, variety shows and movies.
It is funny that you should talk about High Brow words. I was in South Africa last year at a medical convention and disussed this with an English Phd/MD (a very well educated man). Anyway, he was teasing "us" (AMericans) about how we created a bunch of long useless words for no reason at all. One of the words he gave as an example was "elevator" instead of "lift". He said, "come on now, is that really neccessary?" I just wanted to know why something so inane should bother the English! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| omicron Senior Member United States Joined 7121 days ago 125 posts - 132 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 11 14 July 2005 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
Dude, it ain't the language, it's the crew you're hangin with. The same thing happens with slang. But what's a highbrow word? Rapport, risqué and xenophobic don't strike me as being very uncommon or fancy. Rapport for example... well, it just means rapport. I don't think there's a different word for it. Risqué is probably used more by an older generation. My parents use it to describe movies with steamy sex scenes, because sex is unmentionable. And I'm kind of surprised your writer friend thought you'd be stumped by xenophobic. I don't think it's uncommon either. (But I suspect my Greek brother in law might be upset if he thought you were claiming it came 'from French'.) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| administrator Hexaglot Forum Admin Switzerland FXcuisine.com Joined 7376 days ago 3094 posts - 2987 votes 12 sounds Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, German, Italian, Spanish, Russian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 11 14 July 2005 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I did not mean to raise sociological hell by making this point. Although it's true that this deliberate use of fancy words ususally denotes some level of upward social mobility, it is not restricted to the working class. There are tons of examples of even rarer words I saw in use in such a context. I am quite confident that many of the fine people on this forum will not see those words as anything special and actually do use them every morning. What I mean is that it is especially difficult being a native French speaker on the receiving end of such idle display of vanity when you cannot strike back with the same weapons on account of your not being a native.
If any non-native English speaker has had similar experiences I would be quite interested to see what strategy they have developped if any. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jradetzky Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom geocities.com/jradet Joined 7207 days ago 521 posts - 485 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, GermanB1 | Message 5 of 11 14 July 2005 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think this is somewhat related from the very origins of the English language: Anglo-Saxon and Norman. There's almost always two words for the same concept in English, the Anglo-Saxon one and the Latin-based Norman one, e.g, swine vs pork, sheep vs mutton, etc. As you know, the Anglo-Saxons were the farmers and the Normans were the rulers, so people who speak English using Latin-based words exhibit a reminiscence of Norman superiority.
In Latin languages like Spanish, French or Italian it is not a big deal using Latin-based expressions as they're part of our daily vocabulary. Even Greek ones are commonplace. I remember when I was in London I watched a TV show where people had to answer questions (I think it was "the weakest link") and the presenter asked them: What is the English name of the metal whose name in Latin is Ferrum? Option were copper, iron, silver, and aluminium. Nobody got it right. I think for any Frenchman, Spaniard, Italian, or Portuguese, it would have been a straightforward question, wouldn't it? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| omicron Senior Member United States Joined 7121 days ago 125 posts - 132 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 11 14 July 2005 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7205 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 7 of 11 14 July 2005 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I meet with some guys regularly and we have "the Waffle
House rule". The Waffle House is a chain of inexpensive restaurants that serve breakfast 24/7. The waitresses usually have been waiting tables most of their life. They may not be planning on a more advanced career. The Waffle House rule is basically, "you can't use words that wouldn't be understood by the typical waitress at the Waffle House". When someone "breaks the rule", an alternative wording is suggested. This alternative is frequently slang that a non-native may be less likely to understand; although a waitress at Waffle House might git real good. I don't know if "rapport" would get called for Waffle House rule, but xenophobic definitely would. Anyway, if rapport was called, the suggested alternative might be something like, "gittin on like two peas in a pod". Xenophobic might be, "dudn't much like strangers". Risque would also get called, and may be a joke like, "like you bein' on the internet with the door locked". Anyway, I'm sometimes surprised at the words that others call the Waffle House rule on. I guess they don't give the waitresses much credit. The wait staff is always friendly, and I recommend the hash browns "scattered, smothered, covered and diced". Edited by luke on 14 July 2005 at 11:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Giordano Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7174 days ago 213 posts - 218 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Cantonese, Greek | Message 8 of 11 15 July 2005 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Actually, the people who use these words outside of their normal language level (I only know the French names- Langue Soutenue, Populaire, Familiale...) just sound even less intellectual. It gives the impression that they are trying to make up for a lack of deeper knowledge, trying to impress the listener. However, many "highbrow" words are used frequently in more formal language, or in more area-specific jargon. For example, on this forum, the word periphrase was used. While some saw this as snobbish, most simply realized that, in a linguistic context, the difference between "periphrase" and "paraphrase" is very helpful and indeed necessary. It is the use of these words in proper context and with a matter-of-fact attitude that confers an aura of education on the speaker. To go out of your way to mention a certain word seems of poor taste. However, using the word because it is there and fits best in the context is a plus.
Again, while we should all avoid jamming an word into a certain sentence inappropriately, there should be no guilt in using succinct language; using the best possible word for the job. Why let others' ignorance limit our expression? If someone doesn't know the meaning of periphrase, then they can feel free to use a dictionary. After consulting one, they will find that, indeed, it was the best word for the idea (I am just using periphrase as an example). If anything, languages need more words so we can better express ourselves and our thoughts. In George Orwell's Nineteen-Eighty-Four, language is limited so as to limit the though of the population. I think the opposite is true. When we don't have a word for something, we create it. After all the work of creating and propagating the perfect word for a given object or idea has been done for you, why would you periphrase? Just to avoid sounding "pretentious"? This is self-conciousness manifest. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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