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Subliminal learning | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 1 of 24 11 March 2008 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think this article about 'subliminal learning" is interesting for us:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25190.php "It's possible that other parts of the brain could work this way too," Watanabe says. "People might be able to improve their pronunciation of a new language, if it's presented simply, without paying attention. It's possible the brain could be changed without a lot of effort." I think subjects like subliminal perception, implicit memory and implicit learning have interesting insights for us. Edited by slucido on 11 March 2008 at 5:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| unzum Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom soyouwanttolearnalan Joined 6913 days ago 371 posts - 478 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin | Message 2 of 24 11 March 2008 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have some doubts about that experiment.
Firstly, he was only testing visual stimulae, but then draws the conclusion that the pronunciation of a foreign language can be learned in the same way. Basically, he did an experiment of vision and then applied the conclusion to sound. Secondly, there is no mention in the article about a control group. For example, one group that watches for the grey letters is also exposed to the almost imperceptible dots, and another group that also watches for the letters is not exposed to any dots. He states the participants improved in their time to recognise these dots. But it's unclear whether they improved because of the imperceptible dot tests or just because they had already done a similar test just a while ago. Having a control group would have helped solve this problem. One guy did an experiment recently to see if he could learn Tibetan through osmosis. He listened to Tibetan for 1 hour a day for 134 days. He learnt 56 words. I'm not saying sublimal/osmosis learning doesn't exist. I just don't think it's a very effective way to learn. Just listening to a language while you're asleep or concentrating on other things won't give you any real results, it's only when you start to put some active effort that you'll see some real progress. Even methods that promote listening & reading above all else, still have a lot of active learning there. With the L-R method you're working things out as you listen, grammar, vocabulary etc. With Khatzumoto's method you're learning stuff from flashcards all the time. There's a short article here about subliminal learning, with several links to other articles. I just think active learning is a much more effective way to learn a language than sitting back, letting the language wash over you, and hoping something will sink in without your knowing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| rob Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6164 days ago 287 posts - 288 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, Norwegian, Mandarin | Message 3 of 24 12 March 2008 at 4:18am | IP Logged | ||
I agree with this. Whilst the human brain is amazing and we don't have a full understanding of how it works, I think active study is still necessary. Though, perhaps if you were to combine subliminal learning with active learning, it could perhaps take effect more rapidly. There would need to be extensive tests to even begin to prove whether this was correct or not this though. There is also a large difference between detecting grey letters and learning a language. Though the article didn't imply that you could learn a language, only that you could improve your pronunciation, which is a more reasonable statement. Unless you already understood what you were going to listen to I don't think you'd further understand it without explanation, something you can't get in your sleep. There is also the argument that if you listen to language tapes in your sleep and your brain is subliminally learning, then you aren't properly resting, which could actually be damaging to your health due to a lack of proper rest... Again, further experiments would be necessary to prove anything, but I think the article was interesting nontheless. I still think superliminal learning is the way to go! Edited by rob on 12 March 2008 at 4:20am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shapd Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6148 days ago 126 posts - 208 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Italian, Spanish, Latin, Modern Hebrew, French, Russian | Message 4 of 24 12 March 2008 at 4:34am | IP Logged | ||
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While I am sceptical about the value of subliminal learning, the effect of sleep is now well established. Many experiments have now shown that memories are consolidated and transferred to long term memory during sleep, particularly during slow wave, non REM sleep ie the deep sleep when you are not dreaming. That is why all night cramming for exams does not work for any longer than the period of the exam itself.
So maybe you should learn just before bed and make sure you get a good night's sleep for retention. Even short naps during the day have been shown to be effective. Try telling that to your employer! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6150 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 5 of 24 12 March 2008 at 5:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Nothing can be active study when fully rested, as you're both alert, awake and relaxed. I find over tiredness can really hamper my learning ability. I also think it's possible to achieve some level of subconcious learning.
I've used the Vocabulearn series while concentrating on other tasks, like commuting. One day, I decided to listen to the English, and try and get the Spanish word out before the speaker. Amazingly, and a bit of a suprise to myself, I had a hit rate of about 95%. I realised the only words I was missing were those words that cropped up when I was crossing traffic. I wouldn't advise using Vocabulearn for active study, as it's very tedious, but it's great for passive learning. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 6 of 24 12 March 2008 at 6:05am | IP Logged | ||
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I used the article to start a discussion about subliminal perception, implicit memory and implicit learning. Think this article it's not the scientific report, only a journalistic commentary.
I understand your concerns. There is a lot of confusion about these subjects. On the one hand we have New Age marketers and on the other hand hardcore skeptics who fight against straw men. For example, I agree with Todd Carroll (Skeptic dictionary) and their assessments about subliminal tapes, but what he writes implies all about this subject is nonsense, at that's not true. There is more an more scientific evidence about this unconscious processes. First of all, when researches talk about "subliminal" they mean below the threshold of conscious perception, but supraliminal. I mean you are perceiving the stimulus, but you are not paying attention to them or you aren't aware about them or maybe those stimulus are too low, because they are sub-subjective stimulus. On the other hand, a lot of times, when talking about "implicit memory" they mean you have memory about something you don't remember you had memorized, but you perfectly payed attention the first time, but you don't remember that moment right now. "Implicit learning" is very interesting too. It's about learning new knowledge without conscious attempts to learn them or without awareness about learning this knowledge. And I say it's very interesting due to the fact that some of the research is about learning artificial grammars. In fact, when you do learn a language ( native or second) you learn "implicitly" (or unconsciously) a huge part of them. When people do extensive reading and listening or the L-R method, even the sentence method with flashcards, a huge amount of their learning is implicit. It's interesting what DaraghM tell us. I think it's interesting to distinguish, between different levels of this "implicit learning" in learning languages, the two are passive, but: 1-You listen passively and you are paying attention. You try to understand and to follow what it's saying. 2-You listen passively and you are not paying attention. You are not trying to understand. It's DaragahM's work with "vocabulearn" while commuting or listening the radio while doing other things. I think the two kinds of listening there is implicit (or unconscious) learning, but the second is more paradigmatic. I seems "priming" and "facilitation" processes quoted in scientific papers about implicit memory and learning and cognitive science, are working throughout this two approaches. On the other hand, behaviorist therapist work with classic and operational conditioning that are useful techniques that work at an unconscious level. Edited by slucido on 12 March 2008 at 9:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6150 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 7 of 24 12 March 2008 at 9:55am | IP Logged | ||
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Interesting. Given that implicit and explicit memory seem to be different based on the study of amnesiac patients, I wonder what language learning processes can be used to move the language from procedural to implicit memory. It's all nicely described here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_memory Will overlearning achieve this ? Edited by DaraghM on 12 March 2008 at 9:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 8 of 24 12 March 2008 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | ||
Thank you for your link. It summarizes quite well what I am talking about. Keep in mind that this article is about implicit memory and not implicit perception and learning. However they are strongly related concepts. The research uses amnesic patients, but normal people as well. The procedural memory is a sort of implicit memory. Another works can be found here: http://www.memory-key.com/Seniors/senior_research_training.h tm Rebok, G.W., Rasmusson, D.X., & Brandt J. 1996. Prospects for Computerized Memory Training in Normal Elderly: Effects of Practice on Explicit and Implicit Memory Tasks. Applied Cognitive Psychology, 10, 211-223. Twelve cognitively normal, elderly adults (mean age=76.33 years)were given training and practice on the Colorado Neuropsychology Tests, a computerized battery of explicit and implicit memory tasks. Half the participants practiced on the explicit memory tasks for 1.5 hours a week for 9weeks with the assistance of a psychologist, while the other halfpractised on the implicit tasks for the equivalent amount of time. Both training conditions produced significant improvement in their performance on the tests, with those in the implicit memory condition showing the most overall improvement. About the implicit and explicit language learning, here you have a few comments: http://webdoc.gwdg.de/edoc/ia/eese/artic98/finkb/10_98.html# kap05 More research can be found here: http://reberlab.psych.northwestern.edu/ Skosnik, Mirza, Gitelman, Parrish, Mesulam & Reber (2002) Neural Correlates of Artificial Grammar Learning NeuroImage Reber, P.J., Gitelman, D.R., Parrish, T.B., & Mesulam, M-M. (2005). Priming and the acquisition of visual expertise: Changes in neural activity beyond the second presentation. Cerebral Cortex, 15, 787 - 795 Reber, P.J, Gitelman, D.R., Parrish, T.B. & Mesulam, M.-M. (2003). Dissociating explicit and implicit category knowledge with fMRI. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, 15, 574-685. Reber & Squire (1998). Encapsulation of Implicit and Explicit Memory in Sequence Learning Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience .... If you want long term effects, forget about overlearning (massive practice) and use spaced repetition (distributed practice) for learning languages or whatever subject you want long term retention. You can read this: Distributed practice more effective than massed practice: http://www.memory-key.com/Articles/practice.htm The Effect of Overlearning on Long-Term Retention http://www.pashler.com/Articles/Rohrer_etal_AppliedCog2005.p df I hope all this references convince people I am not talking about pseudoscience or New Age speculations. Edited by slucido on 12 March 2008 at 12:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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