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Japanese and the active phase | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6442 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 1 of 2 22 March 2008 at 3:09am | IP Logged |
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Below is a question-and-answer on the active phrase. I hope it clears up some questions people have had. I haven't fixed spelling mistakes in it, or formatted it for the forum, but it's quite clear what's a question and what's an answer nonetheless.
----- 2. Long sentences popping into your head... So far, only words and short phrases pop into my head. How long did it take for you get to the point where long sentences are automatically just popping into your head? Natural listening + about 3 to 5 hours of repeating after the recording, and then recitation. By recitation I mean remembering a sentence or two for a while (not learning them by heart), choosing your favourite pictures and then imagining why the people in the pictures use the sentences - and you yourself say the sentences aloud, playing the people. 3. Learning to speak - Did you do repeat after the recording part for all of your texts that you study or just a few texts in the beginning? I only repeat something that I particularly like. First only words, then phrases and then sentences etc. I do not repeat whole texts (only if they are worth it - poems or sayings for instance). 4. I'm trying to figure out how much listening comprehension I need before going to the speaking step. I have natural listening already but only for simple texts; not these long/difficult novels. How much do you understand before you started repeating after the text? In each text, there are some very easy parts and some hard parts. Should I spend more time on listening comprehension to learn the hard parts or should I start repeating right after I begin understanding about 50%-60% of the sentences? I do not spend much time on repeating - I prefer to listen to texts to maximize exposure. I only repeat occasianally here and there. I only repeat something I understand fully - be it a word or a phrase. If the meaning is not clear I do not repeat it. That does not mean I have to understand the whole text. 5. How well do I need to be able to listen and speak before beginning to read? When did you decide your speaking/listening is good enough to begin the reading step for a text? It depends on how important PRONUNCIATION is for you. If it does not matter, you can begin anytime. For me it does matter so I only start reading without listening when I know my pronunciation is good enough not to suffer from reading. 6. When re-listening to a text for one or two extra times, should it be done consecutively? I find it's more interesting to go on to new texts, but I will often learn more (due to forgetting curves) if I study a single text continuously. If I like a text or a voice I listen to it many times, even if I understand it completely. I do not worry how fast or slow I learn, I concentrate on JOY. It's better than orgasms. When I find I have enough, I do new texts. 7. How did you do your studying since there are multiple steps and multiple texts. For instance, did you listen, speak, read, write for a single text and then move on to another text? Or did you listen to all the texts, then try to speak from all the texts, read all the texts. I try to maximize exposure - I can listen naturally and repeat after the recording at the same time. I sometimes type something I like. I do not worry about any order, what counts for me is listening and pronunciation, the rest is less important. 8. Grammar - How and how often did you use your reference grammar? Do you actually study from it? Or do you just use it to look up things you do not understand when you are listening? At the beginning I used them a lot. And then less and less, now I hardly ever use them. I try to make my own grammar textbook as soon as possible. I use texts and try to figure out for myself, when I fail I use other sources. I usually have a look at some tables, if there are any. Questions about repeating after the reader (shadowing) and recitation: 1. When you finished the initial stage of listen-reading and decided you have reached natural listening and are ready to begin shadowing, did you shadow + natural listening for 3-5 hours immediately and continuously? more specifically, is this step one long session of natural-listening/shadowing or is it multiple short sessions that add up to 3-5 hours? Multiple. 2. Did you continue to practice shadowing after those initial 3-5 hours or is it just a one-time event only in the beginning stages? Continue for at lest 5 minutes a day. 3. When you say 3-5 hours, is that time you are actually physically repeating words or is time that you are naturally listening and repeating the words/phrases/sentences you like? For instance, 3-5 hours of actual physically repeating words might be equal 9-15 hours of total natural-listening/repeating time. Please clarify. The latter. 4. Recitation - Can you give more details about this step and describe exactly how you did this? Do you mean to the play as the people in the story, think about the scene, and then say the words while thinking why the person speaking is using these sentences? What do you mean by remembering a sentence vs. learning them by heart? Did you do this step while listening to the audio or is the audio off? During this step, are you listen-reading with the translation or just natural listening? How much recitation did you do before being able to speak or have long sentences pop into your head? You only recite when you've already learned correct pronunciation. You choose your own pictures (photos etc), and imagine your OWN situation, not from the story, you repeat the same phrases, dialogues changing the people in YOUR story you've just invented. You remember for a while (necessary to play your scene), you learn by heart for ever. It does not matter if it's natural listening, L-R or just reading. Recitation is not so important - it's just for fun and veriaty. What really counts is listening and repeating after the recording. Question about Natural Listening and Reviewing Old Texts and Allocation of study time 5. Natural Listening - In your posts, you mention to natural listen to new materials that you've never seen the original text or translation for. But do you ever do natural listening for the texts after you listen-read with the translation? Is it important to do natural listening for the texts you are studying? JOY is my ultimate guide. I do both. 6. Reviewing Old Texts - When you decided you have done enough of one text, do you always go to new texts instead or do you go back and review old texts that you studied long time ago? I usually do not review old texts. EXPOSURE =NEW TEXTS, if possible. 7. Out of 100%, how much time do you guess you spend on each step: listen-reading, natural listening, reading, speaking, and writing? I know you say to spend most time maximizing exposure, but what proportion of time did you spend on listening exposure and how did you split the time between natural-listening and listen-reading? At the beginning (incubation period) L-R = 100%, then L-R = 60 to 70% (you should remember that it involves plenty of natural listening as well, because more and more passages are easy). After the incubation period I do everything at the same time: listen, repeat, read, type, no rigid schedule. Edited by Volte on 07 June 2010 at 12:33pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6442 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 2 07 June 2010 at 12:34pm | IP Logged |
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This thread was previously named "Polish and the active phase", but that's inaccurate; it's a q&a session between atamagaii and a learner of Japanese.
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