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Spanish in Spain and Latin America | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Immersion, Schools & Certificates |  | |
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6143 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 10 of 35 28 January 2009 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
I highly disagree with you on all points. I spent 4 weeks (30 days) at a Spanish school in central Mexico (Cuernavaca, a very nice city without the crime of Mexico City) (you can read about my experience on the other thread for more detail), and it was under $2,500 all inclusive, for the following: -Round-trip airfare on a direct flight to Mexico City with Continental Airlines.... you may save a little if you go with AeroMexico. -4 weeks of tuition at a small school that has been in business for over 10 years in Cuernavaca (e.g. there's a long history of customers and they are happy to direct you to phone numbers of people to call and talk to about it.. mostly Americans). The school experience includes 2 field trips or "visitas" per week as part of tuition. -30 days of "homestay" housing, assigned and entirely orchestrated by the school, and this housing includes 3 meals a day, in the Mexican style (light breakfast, main meal at 3PM, light dinner around 9PM). The "homestay" families do not speak English. You have to interact in Spanish. -3 fairly long and indepth weekend bus trips with tour guide to major tourist sites in central Mexico such as the pyramids at Teotihuacan, the silver mining city of Taxco, famous art museums in Mexico City (e.g. Frida Kahlo's house/museum). The school will help you arrange to go on an organized tour or will help you discover how to do it on your own (usually 1/2 the price)... to give you an idea of how cheap it is, you're looking at about $35USD for an all-day tour WITH a guide, all-inclusive... about $15 if you want to catch a bus yourself and REALLY have to learn Spanish :) -Eating out and having drinks at a bar a few times (note: "sit-down" restaurants in Mexico are more expensive than other options there... generally only the wealthy eat out at this type of restaurant... street vendor food, however, is dirt cheap)... beer is also cheap, even at bars, unlike in the U.S. I say under $2,500, because $2,500 included the cost of souvenirs and such that aren't a necessity. The school I went to was Encuentros, http://www.learnspanishinmexico.com ... I highly recommend you check out the website and ask detailed questions. The school's director, Jean A., an American ex-pat married to a Mexican, will answer your questions. All teachers are Mexicans who do not use any language other than Spanish when teaching. Mexico isn't the only option, but when you look at airfares to other countries, that begins to eat up your budget fast. I would love to study in Santiago, Chile, but it's $1,500 for an airline ticket. Mexico City should be under $450 from anywhere in the USA. under $300 from Houston. I paid $175 last year (I went a second time for a 2-week stay and it was just as great!). Look for discount bargain tickets. To me, these were amazing vacations. Forget a cruise or some bullcrap laying on the beach. I can do that here in Texas. I travel for culture, history, language, etc, not to be sucked-up to by English-speaking waiters in an overpriced tourist-trap. Central Mexico is far enough from all of the beaches to have only a small quantity of tourists, so you can get authentic Spanish. You will rarely encounter people who speak English, other than a few poorly-pronounced phrases by vendors, etc, or an occasional eager taxi driver who wants to practice what he knows. I do hope to save up to go to Chile to learn Spanish (to a similar school) or to Costa Rica (again, to a similar school). Here's the one I'm looking at in Costa Rica: http://www.elparaisoschool.com/ Here's the one I'm looking at in Santiago, Chile: http://www.latinimmersion.com/chile.htm Lower (VERY LOW) prices can be found in countries like Guatemala, but living conditions are a little rougher. In Cuernavaca, Mexico, for instance, the homes are middle-class, have running hot water, 2 or 3 bathrooms in one house, enough taxi and bus service to get anywhere WITHOUT a rental car (and for cheap), and full independence during non-class times... that is, you can easily get around and do whatever you want without the help of the school or your host family, due to the plethora of taxi cabs (probably the highest per-capita ouside of New York City, not exaggerating), etc. Frankly, when I go there, I want to stay... The pace of life, the Mexican culture, it is captivating. Cities like Mexico City (huge) and Cuernavaca (medium) are nothing like the dusty border towns seen in American movies. NOTHING like that. Not even the terrain is like that. Cuernavaca is at 5,000ft elevation and the weather is gorgeous year-round, lush and green. Good luck in your decision. Forget that stupid cruise or lame retarded thing the travel agents want to sell you. Go to an immersion school abroad! -Michael 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6143 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 12 of 35 29 January 2009 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
I would put Encuentros over the others you are considering. The school is much smaller, typically under 30 students and even fewer if you come during non-peak months. This means a lot of personal attention considering the low costs. Encuentros caters to adult students and intentionally provides no college credit for their courses, because this attracts college kids. No thanks! It is worthy to note that Encuentros is on the opposite side of town from the big university. This university is the source of many American college students. As such, in the area near the school I very rarely encountered an English-speaker. If you take some of the affordable tours offered by the university, you will be on a bus full of English-speaking college kids. If that bugs you, then you can take the same tours minus a guide, on your own, for less money! Jean, the director of Encuentros, can help get you specifics on bus routes, prices, etc, and will make phone calls for you to make arrangements if your skills aren't up to doing phone conversations.
I highly encourage you to reconsider the homestay option. It may not be what you think. The home we stayed in was an older couple (in their early 60's) with only adult children who do not live in the home. Their home is large, with 3 bathrooms, hot running water and showers. You can share a room with a same-gender student for $20/day or have a private room for $30/day. This price includes 3 meals a day prepared by the hosts. In Mexico, this means (usually) a light breakfast (cereal, toast, breads, milk, juice, coffee), a 3PM main meal (3 course), and a light dinner "cena" around 8:30-9PM, which may be a sandwich or just a snack. All meals are optional, you can let the host know you will be out (say, at a bar or restaurant), just let them know in the morning when you leave for school. If you go during a lesser-busy time, you may be the only student in the home. During a busy time, you may be with other students, depending on whether you paid for a private or shared room. Students come from all over, though are mostly Americans. We met, while there, students from Australia, England, Japan, Tazmania, and others.
Yes, I would say the VAST majority do not speak English. This is no border town and though many vendors try to speak very rudamentary English to sell you things, you're better off engaging them in Spanish and once you do, they will not speak their poor English anymore! I remember a few times seeing "gringos" out in public, but I would say it's at least 99% native Mexican there. There is supposedly an American colony somewhere in Cuernavaca, but I never saw it nor its residents in my 6 weeks there over two summers. Also as mentioned, Encuentros is not in a typical tourist part of the city and is far from the big university which caters to American kids during the summers. If you go out to certain bars and clubs (like "Los Arcos" near the Zocalo), there are often many Americans there, but even with that, there is over 80% natives in what is known as an American-friendly bar! The live music is Spanish, sometimes tropical or Cuban, depending on who is playing that night. But, there are lots of bars that are all natives, I am just not much of a bar-hopper so I never checked them out.
I went during June both times. June, especially early June, gets you there before the really busy season. If you arrive at the end of June or anytime in July or August, it is a lot busier. That being said, I'm told that business has slowed down SUBSTANTIALLY due to the economic problems in the U.S. and the rest of the world. I imagine this year, even busy season will be slower than normal. During "busy season" you could expect as many as 30 students at the school. As students increase, more teachers are called in to keep the class sizes small. Typically between 2 to 4 students. 4 students is the maximum per class. Private classes are offered at a higher price, please ask the director about those pricing differences. I find the small 3-4 student classes to be just about right for me, though. It gives me time to think about things while another student is answering or asking questions. Students are grouped by similar levels. If no one is present at the school who is on your level, then you get a private class for the regular class price. Classes are 5 hours per day, ending at 2:30PM. 3PM is the time for "la comida" (dinner) at your homestay if you choose that and then you have the evening free to do as you please. The school provides optional activities for every single evening. Most are free or low cost. Weekend activities are arranged with outside agencies, but the school can take care of it for you and you don't have to wonder how it all works, they will help you step by step or you can go for it on your own, your call. If you are going to take all private classes at Encuentros, then there are two teachers I'd recommend, depending on your style: 1) Carmen is the best if you want someone who is very, very patient and friendly. You will learn at a moderate pace with her and she will be very forgiving of mistakes. She is my favorite. She also is very well-versed on American culture (I think she's a big fan of it) and can often help relate things to Spanish and help you with understanding in context. 2) Rebecca is the best if you want to be PUSHED and learn faster. If you are easily insulted or embarassed by your own mistakes, then don't pick her. But if you want your mistakes pointed out and corrected and if you want to be pushed to learn fast from a very intelligent lady, pick Rebecca. She may also tell a slightly naughty joke now and then and that makes it fun! Good luck in your choice. I do again encourage you to reconsider the homestay. If you don't like it after a week (or a day or two, even), you can always leave and go to a B&B or a hotel. Please let me know what you choose. Encuentros has a U.S.-based number (Vonage) and Jeannie can talk to you by telephone to assuage any concerns you have. She was so helpful to me that I dropped all other schools off of my consideration list. If you do talk to her, tell her "The Durans" sent you :) She knows us well. Edited by ZeroTX on 29 January 2009 at 5:37pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6143 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 14 of 35 30 January 2009 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
There are two weekly "visitas" or field trips during the week and sometimes that involves food, etc, and of course only Spanish is spoken. As far as going for a drink with the instructors after school, that isn't organized by the school but many of them probably would. Some have families to tend to, while others do not. Since they are mostly women, in their society it might not be considered appropriate for them to be "out" with a student alone, though, unless it is group organized. So, I guess that is a question you might run by Jeannie, the school director.
Unfortunately, nowhere else, YET! I really want to go to Santiago, Chile, because it shares many of the advantages of Cuernavaca, but is on the other side of the equator! That means durin our summer, it's their winter, so a relief from the heat, haha. On the other hand, I've heard that the Chilean Spanish is the most difficult and has the most slang, so that's a downside. Next on my list would be Costa Rica. I am looking at a school there called El Paraiso ( http://www.elparaisoschool.com ). This school is unique in that classes are held in covered outdoor areas (like... pavilions or.. I cannot think of the word!), within a protected national rain forest! There are small monkeys that actually come up to the area and interact with people. I hear it is quite beautiful and is within 5 minutes of the Pacific coast. This is the perfect "getaway" type of vacation/learning experience where you can do river rafting and other active lifestyle type of things along with learning Spanish. Costa Rica is the "richest" per-capita of all Latin American countries, so you will find the lifestyle comfortable, I think. I am hoping so... I plan to do an adventure trip sometime, but not just yet :) I also want to go to a school in Madrid, Spain, but I haven't picked any one specific one yet. There are MANY.
I find that concept interesting... I don't know how they do it logistically speaking (how do you find teachers who are willing to move out of their own homes and/or be away from their families all the time?).
Yes, I remember reading up on them and looking over their website. The concept was so different from the others and I do vaguely remember that. I think it certainly could provide some unique learning opportunities. However, after having experienced the Encuentros way, I don't know if I'd give up the short morning walk to the school (usually with a stop in at a "tienda" to buy a cold coke) or the chance to experience life with a Mexican family in a normal homestay. I will admit that I heard mixed reviews on homestays. It depends on which homestay you are assigned. Jeannie puts great effort into assigning one based specifically on your requests and she provides detailed profiles of the top 3 and lets you pick the one that you like. Barring that, I could just tell you who I stayed with and if she has space, you would LOVE living in the home. It's the home of a couple in their 60's, and the woman of the house is a great cook and a motherly host. That said, next time I will probably try something different strictly for the opportunity to try something different! Maybe Anders, but most likely another country altogether, although I think Mexico has the most understandable, clear and "neutral" version of Spanish (city Mexicans, not rural Mexicans) in Latin America. I'd avoid Cuba, Venezuela or Argentina altogether during your learning phase :) Costa Rica has some peculiar slang, but very clear spoken language, so that's another reason Costa Rica is high on my list.
I think any way you go, you will enjoy the experience. Everyone's experience is completely unique to them. If I had the time, money and ability to drop everything, I'd love to live in Cuernavaca or another medium-sized Mexican city for 1 or 2 years, just to really become part of another culture. It is truly striking how different cultures can be with so few miles of separation. A plane flight to Mexico City from my house (Houston, TX) is about the same as a flight to St. Louis, Missouri, yet you may as well have landed on the other side of the world. That's a beautiful thing :) Good luck. I'm happy to help at least as far as my own experience. One thing you might look into is finding someone on http://www.hospitalityclub.org who lives in Cuernavaca and see if they wouldn't mind showing you around. Also, one thing I forgot, is that the Encuentros school will set you up with a local native who is learning English and you can arrange personal meeting with this person to speak in English and Spanish. It's preferred (usually) to decide up front how long you will speak in each language so that it benefits both parties. This could be the one you meet for a beer somewhere :) The list of those wanting a language partner are much longer than those accepting, so there are plenty of people to choose from who might have similar age/interests/etc. as you. Michael 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| ZeroTX Groupie United States Joined 6143 days ago 91 posts - 100 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 16 of 35 30 January 2009 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Interesting! Well, we are going to Germany for a short trip soon, but I don't think I can learn more than basic phrases like "where is the bathroom" in German in such a short time!
That's good to hear. It does seem to be a nice city that is very much overlooked by Americans. But, the lack of demand to travel there makes airfare very high. I looked into it for this upcoming summer and it is over $1,500 for a coach seat. Ouch. To give some perspective, my ticket to Frankfurt, Germany is less than $500.
Cool... I will check it out.
I will let you know! I think my research will get deeper when I really start to save up the resources to take a 2+ week trip there. I'd like to spend some time in a school in Madrid and then maybe spend a few days traveling Spain and utilizing the language. In that case, I'd probably avoid Barcelona and other areas that are heavily Catalan or Basque.
I'm not sure either, but I know this won't be an issue in Madrid.
I hadn't previously considered Buenos Aires, but I will definitely add it to my consideration list!
Yes, I'm currently conversational in Spanish at an Intermediate level. I can hold a basic conversation about a variety of topics, but nothing in-depth just yet. I am working on building vocabulary and increasing fluidity of speech. I have come a long way, though. I have been studying for 2 years as of next month (so 23 months). I went to Cuernavaca with my wife, who also took Spanish classes. She seemed interested in it due to my interest, although her interest has waned somewhat. For me, it is a hobby, a passion and a personal goal to be fully fluent in Spanish as soon as physically possible, given constraints of time, money and other life obligations. Once I decided to go to an immersion school (at the recommendation of several professional educators who said it was the best way to learn fast), I decided to get my foundation built before going... I wanted to make my time at the school as productive as possible. So, I took the Basic and Intermediate classes from this place, online: http://www.sayhola.com ... I know it sounds hokey, but the video classes really got me to understand the basics and build a foundation upon which to construct my other knowledge. I also took Advanced classes in-person from the same instructor, who is based here in Texas. So, I took those 3 classes before going to Mexico for the first time. In addition, I bought the series Learning Spanish Like Crazy - Nivel Uno and worked through those. Warning, those can get a bit advanced and tough toward the end (mostly due to the speed), but are a good way to get you really speaking. I also found chat partners for online chat using http://www.sharedtalk.com, where I have found at least a couple of good Spanish-speaking friends that I chat with on a regular basis either by text or via Skype. So far, I've found the journey to be well worth it! I work in a school with 78% hispanic students and of those probably 77% have Spanish as their native language. As such, I get to practice pretty often! Edit: Oh, I also use free Podcasts... Coffee Break Spanish, Show Time Spanish and Spanish Pod (probably the best of them, but you have to pay for the good stuff). Check for those on iTunes or google. :) Edited by ZeroTX on 30 January 2009 at 5:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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