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Parallel texts project | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Links & Internet Resources |  | |
| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5467 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes  Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 33 of 103 28 March 2010 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'd like to see more parallel texts in languages not including English, such as:
-Dutch/German -French/Dutch -French/German For example: Wandrers Nachtlied II Über allen Gipfeln Ist Ruh, In allen Wipfeln Spürest du Kaum einen Hauch; Die Vögelein schweigen im Walde. Warte nur, balde Ruhest du auch. Nachtlied van de wandelaar II Boven alle bergtoppen heerst rust, in alle boomtoppen voel je nauwelijks een zucht; de vogeltjes zwijgen in het bos, Wacht maar, weldra rust jij ook. Chant de nuit du voyageur II Par-dessus les sommets il y a la paix, au-dessus des cimes tu sens à peine un souffle ; les petits oiseaux font silence en forêt. Attends un peu, bientôt toi aussi tu te reposeras 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| OlafP Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5433 days ago 261 posts - 667 votes Speaks: German*, French, English | Message 34 of 103 28 March 2010 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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A question to those who have some experience with using long parallel texts: I saw that in the files on Marco's site (well, I checked only "Crime and Punishment") there is only a rough spatial match of original text and translation, i.e. you may have to go a few lines up or down in the right column to find the translation of a sentence. My idea is to have the translation start at exactly the same vertical position, which would mean that you need a line break after each sentence. Would this disrupt the flow of reading once your more fluent? Or in other words: Is it more important in the long run to have complete paragraphs without line breaks or to find the translation as quickly as possible?
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| elvisrules Tetraglot Senior Member BelgiumRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5467 days ago 286 posts - 390 votes Speaks: French, English*, Dutch, Flemish Studies: Lowland Scots, Japanese, German | Message 35 of 103 28 March 2010 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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It would be nice to be able to view something poems such as Ode an die Freude in 3 or 4 languages at the same time.
http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/An_die_Freude_%28Schiller%29 (Original German) http://nl.wikisource.org/wiki/Ode_an_die_Freude (Dutch) http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_%C3%A0_la_joie (French) http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ode_to_Joy (English) Or Baudelaire: L'albatros Souvent, pour s’amuser, les hommes d’équipage Prennent des albatros, vastes oiseaux des mers, Qui suivent, indolents compagnons de voyage, Le navire glissant sur les gouffres amers. A peine les ont-ils déposés sur les planches, Que ces rois de l’azur, maladroits et honteux, Laissent piteusement leurs grandes ailes blanches Comme des avirons traîner à côté d’eux. Ce voyageur ailé, comme il est gauche et veule ! Lui, naguère si beau, qu’il est comique et laid ! L’un agace son bec avec un brûle-gueule, L’autre mime, en boitant, l’infirme qui volait ! Le Poète est semblable au prince des nuées Qui hante la tempête et se rit de l’archer ; Exilé sur le sol au milieu des huées, Ses ailes de géant l’empêchent de marcher. Der Albatros (German) Oft kommt es dass das schiffsvolk zum vergnügen Die albatros · die grossen vögel · fängt Die sorglos folgen wenn auf seinen zügen Das schiff sich durch die schlimmen klippen zwängt. Kaum sind sie unten auf des deckes gängen Als sie · die herrn im azur · ungeschickt Die grossen weissen flügel traurig hängen Und an der seite schleifen wie geknickt. Er sonst so flink ist nun der matte steife. Der lüfte könig duldet spott und schmach: Der eine neckt ihn mit der tabakspfeife · Ein andrer ahmt den flug des armen nach. Der dichter ist wie jener fürst der wolke · Er haust im sturm · er lacht dem bogenstrang. Doch hindern drunten zwischen frechem volke Die riesenhaften flügel ihn am gang. De albatros (Dutch) De leden der bemanning vangen op de boten Vaak albatrossen en verdrijven zo de tijd Met deze wijdgewiekte lome reisgenoten Die ’t zeilschip volgen dat op zilte diepten glijdt. Eenmaal aan dek gestald, nadat hij is gegrepen, Laat deze vorst van het azuur beschaamd en plomp Zijn brede witte vlerken deerniswekkend slepen Als werkeloze riemen, hangend langs de romp. Die hemelvaarder wekt een lachen en ontstellen! Wat is hij log en lomp die eerst zo sierlijk was! De één reikt met zijn smoelenschroeier, om te kwellen, De ander aapt de kranke na met manke pas! De dichter lijkt die prins der hoogste regionen Die elke schutter tart en rijdt op de orkaan; Verbannen aan de grond, waar bek en vuilbek wonen, Kan hij door reuzenvleugels amper staan of gaan. 信天翁（おきのたいふ） (Japanese) 波路遙けき徒然の慰草と船人は、 八重の潮路の海鳥の沖の太夫を生擒りぬ、 楫の枕のよき友よ心閑けき飛鳥かな、 沖津潮騒すべりゆく舷近くむれ集ふ。 たゞ甲板に据ゑぬればげにや笑止の極なる。 この青雲の帝王も、足どりふらゝ、拙くも、 あはれ、眞白き双翼は、たゞ徒らに廣ごりて 、 今は身の仇、益も無き二つの櫂と曳きぬらむ 。 天飛ぶ鳥も、降りては、やつれ醜き痩姿、 昨日の羽根のたかぶりも、今はた鈍に痛はし く、 煙管に嘴をつゝかれて、心無には嘲けられ、 しどろの足を摸ねされて、飛行の空に憧るゝ 。 雲居の君のこのさまよ、世の歌人に似たらず や、 暴風雨を笑ひ、風凌ぎ獵男（さつお）の弓を あざみしも、 地の下界にやらはれて、勢子の叫に煩へば、 太しき双の羽根さへも起居妨ぐ足まとひ。 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kubelek Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland chomikuj.pl/Kuba_wal Joined 6850 days ago 415 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishC2, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 36 of 103 28 March 2010 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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OlafP:
I created one parallel text of Lord of the flies with such small cells using LeoBilingua software - it has an option of roughly dividing the text based on periods at the end of sentences. It seemed like an easier way to go about it, as paragraphs didn't match very well. I later fixed all the mistakes resulting from discrepancies between the two texts, ie joining two or more sentences where the translation used one longer sentence instead. The truth is that it was quite annoying to LR later on, because sentences in that book were pretty short, and I wasn't a beginner. A lot of one liners. That meant a lot of scrolling without really seeing the benefit. In another text I was preparing - Los Hermanos Karamazov - where both of the texts I was working with were translations from Russian, it was hard to find places to divide the texts in the same place in both of the texts, as both translators must have taken liberties while translating the book in the first place. Some sentences went on for half a page, so you see that it was inevitable. There wasn't nearly as much sentence to sentence correspondence as in Lord of the flies, and creating it was very time consuming (hence I and another collaborator decided to forgo finishing it for now) In Cien anos de soledad the English translation is so close to the original, that you almost never get lost anyway - cognates are used a lot, and the structure of both languages is similar, so you can follow the text easily even with larger cells. I'd say it depends on the text and your current level. Fixing up a text with large cells will teach you a lot by itself, as you'll have to read and compare the two texts before you even start using it properly. I was able to do it in Spanish after finishing Assimil Sp with ease, so you don't have to be fluent at all to try it. So as you see it all depends. Don't forget that the real learning takes place while listening to L2 and reading L1. You pretty much don't look at the corresponding column before you can understand what you hear. When you finally do, you can handle chunks of sentences. Just my 2 cents, to be taken with a grain of salt as I've never used the method as prescribed (ie very intensively and right from the start) Edited by Kubelek on 28 March 2010 at 6:01pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6445 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 37 of 103 28 March 2010 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | ||
100 pages? In no time, provided that the paragraphs match well. I do it like this - "without toil" - you might say: first you have two texts in two different files. You convert both texts to tables with as many columns as there are paragraphs. Then you shorten both tables and paste one beside the other in one of the files. What you do next is arrange the cells (paragraphs) that do not match. PS. This is very important: in order for paragraphs to match best you ought to delete all redundant enters (^p) or (^l) BEFORE you convert the texts to tables. Edited by MarcoDiAngelo on 29 March 2010 at 3:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6445 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 38 of 103 28 March 2010 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||
You shouldn't worry about that: only beginners need shorter paragraphs and I will provide the site with plays (which have only dialogues) and books such as "The Little Prince" or "Alice in Wonderland" which are ideal for absolute beginners. Believe me, when you are an advanced learner, short and especially one-sentence paragraphs will only annoy you. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6445 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 39 of 103 28 March 2010 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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@elvisrules, I agree 100%, but the project has just begun and there are only a handful of people participating. I am myself very busy at the moment preparing Chekhov's plays and stories, after which I have to create Anna Karenina Spanish-Russian-English.
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| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 7075 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 40 of 103 29 March 2010 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Great resource you're putting together Marco. I'll check back often to see what has been added and will also link to my site next time I log in :)
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