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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| linguaholic_ch Triglot Groupie IndiaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5049 days ago 69 posts - 96 votes  Speaks: English, Hindi, Bengali Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, French | Message 1 of 14 27 March 2014 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello fellow members and language learners, I am writing this post today due to this strong urge within me to continue what I had left off in childhood. I always had an interest in East Asian languages until I chose French as my first foreign language to study seriously. My motivation to learn French has come from the desire to read French literary works,to know the culture in depth and of course for job purposes and so on. I had dropped learning Japanese when I was 13, and now I want to learn it again, only because French is becoming a little boring, and I need some time to kill this boredom. And it certainly helps me because I can progress in French better when I keep it aside for a few days. I love Japanese because of the culture, philosophy and a certain element which I can't describe when I think of Japan. When I was small, I used to think I was from Japan in my past life (oops :P). But after learning about China, it is the same for me. Both of these languages fascinate and enchant me with their mystery. I don't like Anime and Manga and I rule them out as a reason to learn Japanese. But the time has come, when I have to choose between the two, because you can't do both. So please friends, help me to understand how both of these cultures accept outsiders and what is their type of literature. I would nor read pessimistic.dark,horrifying or cynical literature, neither some watch some prejudiced pieces against other countries which I heard both Japanese and Chinese have. PS: I am not choosing Japanese or Mandarin so as to replace French, but because I like learning languages. One language isn't enough. Thank you. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6583 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 2 of 14 27 March 2014 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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My experience with Chinese people are that they are extremely happy when foreigners speak their language. When you say "Chinese" I'm assuming you mean Mandarin. Mandarin speakers are less enthusiastic about foreigners speaking their language than are Cantonese speakers (and probably speakers of other Chinese languages), but it's still a very positive attitude. However, no matter how well you speak it and no matter how long you live in China, you will never be seen as one of them. You'll always be an outsider, a foreigner. They will always treat you as a guest, which is nice but gets old if you stay for a long time.
Racism is definitely a factor in China. My experiences are influenced by me being white, and thus subjected to positive stereotyping. I've heard well educated, worldly and otherwise very nice and friendly Chinese people utter statements like "I have nothing against Indians, but they're very dirty" and "That Indian guy smiled at me; it was really scary!". And that's in Hong Kong, with a large Indian population and a very cosmopolitan world view. Not everyone is like that, of course, but you're likely to encounter the attitude. In Mainland China these kinds of attitudes are more common than in Hong Kong, and you should also factor in the political situation in the PRC, with censorship and undemocratic leadership. I don't want to get into politics, but it might influence your decision. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4445 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 3 of 14 27 March 2014 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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The Chinese community outside of China tend to be divided between Mandarin & Cantonese. There are
other places in S. E. Asia where the Fukien & Hakka dialect are common. A lot of Chinese outside China will speak the dialect of their parents and will usually communicate in either Mandarin / Cantonese but not both. When 2 Chinese meet each other, it is common for them to switch to English when 1 person cannot understand the other person's dialect. A lot of foreigners tend to learn Mandarin before Cantonese partly because China has a big population and Mandarin has a fewer tones. When it comes to Simplified over Traditional characters most foreigners tend to prefer Simplified because many difficult character has fewer lines to write and China having a large population. Places like Hong Kong & Taiwan hated the Chinese communists and anything associated with the Party. If you study in Taiwan, they don't consider Simplified Chinese as another style of writing / font, it is simply the "wrong" way because the communists destroyed a lot of Chinese traditions. Japanese is spoken mostly in Japan. There used to be a larger # Japanese in N. America but after WWII, some of these were repatriated back to Japan. And since the economy of Japan has been strong, far fewer Japanese would emigrate abroad. You find a much larger expat Chinese population especially in S-E Asia where Mandarin is widely spoken and the US. When it comes to learning the language, the Chinese relies on memorizing & recognizing characters. The Japanese language does have an alphabet and can be written entirely in phonetics like Korean. They prefer to write using many Chinese characters except for foreign words like "McDonald's" & "hamburger". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| linguaholic_ch Triglot Groupie IndiaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5049 days ago 69 posts - 96 votes Speaks: English, Hindi, Bengali Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, French | Message 4 of 14 28 March 2014 at 4:30am | IP Logged | ||
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I have great respect for China and Chinese culture, but when it comes to politics, it disheartens. I always feel happy when I see that China and India foster friendly relations, especially when old wounds and territorial problems are not the obstacle. In India too, I have many of my friends make fun of Chinese and their language, a racist stereotype, which extends even to those who come from North-East India, due to which there had been protests. I always hope that I will open the newspaper one day and see that China and India had both done away with their arguments and coexist harmoniously.Cantonese is too difficult for me, so it is not in the cards now. But the die-hard privacy that China exhibit. is an important factor. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| linguaholic_ch Triglot Groupie IndiaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5049 days ago 69 posts - 96 votes Speaks: English, Hindi, Bengali Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, French | Message 5 of 14 28 March 2014 at 4:32am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks Ari and shk00design, it was helpful and necessary. Edited by linguaholic_ch on 28 March 2014 at 4:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6583 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 6 of 14 28 March 2014 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | ||
For most learners, Mandarin is probably the way to go, but I just wanted to counter the common idea that Cantonese is more difficult than Mandarin. Most Cantonese speakers are also convinced of this, and I'm not sure where it comes from. Maybe because people can't think of foreigners who speak good Cantonese, so the availibility bias kicks in. On the other hand, it's true to some degree, since Cantonese has a derth of resources, which means it's harder to get enough materials to learn. And to be considered fully literate, you'd have to learn to read Mandarin with Cantonese pronunication, but the language itself is hardly more difficult. The tones are more, sure, but the rest of the phonetics are easier (the Mandarin initials like q, j, c, x, s, z, sh, ch, zh are notoriously hard for forigners to get right), and the grammar is largely the same between the laguages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4255 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 7 of 14 28 March 2014 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Actually, if the Assimil Cantonese comes out this year as planned, there will be a pretty decent amount of beginner Cantonese resources available. Though of course there will always be much much more for Mandarin.
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 8 of 14 29 March 2014 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Cantonese is easier since you don't have to learn how to write it,
all writing in Hong Kong and Macau is done in Mandarin (although in traditional script). Only gossip magazines of questionable quality are written in Cantonese. (Good luck in trying to find Harry Potter with Cantonese vocabulary and syntax). Edited by Medulin on 29 March 2014 at 12:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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